PT Prequel's Anakin

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Obi-Wan spent too much time in the Tatooine suns and convinced himself that Anakin and Vader were two different persons... from a certain point of view.
  2. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    And that's exactly what I'm talking about.

    Ulic still had affection to Nomi and Cay after he became Sith, and he was in very deep regret, returned to the light side after he killed Cay. Did we see that from Vader? No. He didn't hesitate even 1 sec before he killed Obi Wan and didn't regret a bit after that.
  3. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Did we see Revan think Malak and Darth Malak are different people? Or did we see Cay and Nomi think Ulic and the Sith Lord Ulic are different people? And did they try to convince their loved ones to kill Malak/Ulic?
  4. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    who are all these people you are talking about?


    on second thought, i don't want to know
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  5. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Or let's say, did Luke buy Obi Wan's idea? Or would Padme buy it if she was alive?
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I haven't read the books in question, but as far as Obi-Wan and Vader, I'm not sure why we're even discussing their friendship in the OT. As Valairy said, of course they weren't friends there. The one-dimensional villain Vader in ANH not regretting killing Obi-Wan is no indicator whatsoever to me of their past friendship, because any traces of Anakin Skywalker in that version of Vader were buried so deeply as to be forgotten. Since we're talking novels, in the novelization of ROTJ, Anakin thought of Obi-Wan in his final moments, had great memories of their friendship and regrets as to how it had turned. Are we actually assuming that Anakin and Obi-Wan were never friends because Vader--who couldn't breathe at that point--didn't say something to Luke about Obi-Wan?
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  7. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    What I'm trying to say is, if they were good friends before Anakin turned to the Dark Side, they still would keep some affection to each other, especially Obi Wan. Even Anakin would show some emotion before he killed Obi Wan. But we saw none of it. Obi Wan pushed Luke to kill Vader even after Luke said he would no do so. That's not like they once had great friendship, especially if you compare to other similar cases in the EU like Revan/Malak and Cay/Ulic.

    Even in the book, the memory his wife came to him before Obi Wan. Sure he thought Obi Wan was his friend, and PT portrayed that to us, they are just not that good friends.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Dec 7, 2012
  8. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Of course Vader showed no affection - first of all he was INSIDE a mask and second at the time he killed Obi-Wan he wasn't his friend. However, I DO believe some small part of Anakin lingered within and had a bit of regret (some time after).

    Besides, for your argument to make sense, you have to assume ALL people behave and react in exactly the same way. News: they don't.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not necessarily. That's as much a blanket assumption as "good people don't turn to the Dark Side." Human beings and their relationships are more complex than that.

    GMTA.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 7, 2012
  10. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    how do you know that Obi-Wan didn't hold any affection SP?

    Star Wars people don't "speak" internal thoughts.

    Obi in ANH only responded to what Anakin/Vader said,

    he wasn't going to respond with "c'mere ya big lug"

    on top of that hedidn't see Anakin anymore, he saw an armoured black guy, who by his own opinion was an evil guy evil and twisted
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 7, 2012
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Is it sad i had to look up "GMTA"?



    yes...
  12. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No, he swung his blade right after Obi Wan gave up, and he talked about Obi Wan a few times later in OT and showed no regret at all.

    I'm not saying he should behave exactly like he was the good Jedi, but at least keep some affection. Vader and Anakin are the same person, sure he fell to the Dark Side, but that does not mean he completely changed. Obi Wan is the same, you can see what happened to the true brothers, Cay still refused to fight Ulic after he turned to the Dark Side, and Ulic returned to the light after he deeply regret for killing Cay.
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Um, yeah, Anakin did completely change. That was sort of the point. The only trace of Anakin Skywalker inside Darth Vader, did not re-emerge until awhile after Luke showed up.

    And you are again doing as Valairy said, assuming that all people are the same and would react exactly the same way.

    You're also not making your point with your evidence from a book that I haven't read and I don't think Valairy has either (although she can correct me if I'm wrong).
  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He lied to Luke about Vader killed his father and this would surely let Luke hate his father without knowing the truth. After Luke knew the truth, he still tried to push Luke to kill Vader, and he didn't even view Vader as a person, but more like a machine.

    That's just an excuse, if that really makes sense why didn't Luke buy it? Or would Padme buy it if she was alive? Vader is still Anakin, and Luke proved Obi Wan was totally wrong. If he really had great relationship with Anakin, he should believe Anakin was still there, Luke, Padme and Qui Gon Jinn(in EU) all believed it.
  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I don't know much about Revan, Ulic etc. but I do have a vague sense of who they are.

    You are certainly free to wish there had been some expression of affection, but it wasn't going to happen. Now, if OBI-WAN had succeeded in bringing Anakin back to the light, I might side with you but Anakin/Vader killed Obi-Wan while they were not friends. I wouldn't expect affection at the moment. The STORY did not support Anakin protesting friendship while killing his (former) friend.

    In short, your argument is long on emotion and short of logic.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No, from the EU you can see many traces of the old Anakin, he still hated slavery, he still kept respect to Qui Gon Jinn, and the movie showed, he still loved his children.

    Sure they are not the same but I'm saying they should still leave some trace if they really had such strong affection. Did we see Padme and Luke use such laughable excuse to let someone who Anakin loved to kill Vader?
  17. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    because obi-wan isn't omniscient and perfect, like some people seemingly wants him to be:


    he's human, he has flaws as do the rest of us
  18. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Padme also didn't bring Anakin back, but did you see she say "He''s gone"? No, she said "There is still good in him" before she died. Luke never really tasted the love from Anakin, fought him and lost his arm, but he also didn't buy it.
  19. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    So? Once again you want Obi-Wan, his former friend and former master, to act like Padme, his wife. News: they're different people who behave differently.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  20. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not saying he's bad or something, he just didn't really have deep relationship with Anakin, not like he claimed. So I think PT's portrayal is right on the spot.
  21. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    well I think the intent was there, it just wasn't executed well on screen in the PT,

    as I said it concentrated on other areas, that I believe wasn'tthat important for the saga as a whole
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  22. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    If they really were very good friends, I think it's fair for him to believe there is still good in Anakin.
  23. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, the romance could be improved a lot better, and the Clone Wars should be shown in the movie. The overall idea is ok, especially EP I was to show there was some gap between them from the beginning.
  24. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Or fair not to. I still have no idea what Padme based her belief on, myself, irregardless of who was proved correct. Obi-Wan had been raised to believe once one turned, they were forever lost. Correctness of those beliefs (or not) means nothing.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  25. Felicia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012
    star 2
    I was really estranged from Anakin/Vader after I saw the prequels. I wanted to like him after seeing Return of the Jedi but something was just missing for me. He did all of these things to hurt and he fulfilled his prophecy as the Chosen One but for me just thinking about all of the things he did including the March on the Jedi Temple just left something out for me. He destroyed the Sith but what of all the lives he ended. He saved his son yes but whenever I see that scene after seeing Revenge of the Sith it is not as powerful as it was for me before. Even though I knew it was coming this scene this is one that was unforgettable.

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