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PT Prequel's Anakin

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    It depends on your definition of "sainthood". If we go by "unconditional love", none of the Star Wars characters are fully there. Not even Yoda. And that's actually a good thing in book as it makes them more human.
     
  2. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Affection is the reason, and Padme knew Anakin well, she knew Anakin fell because of love, so there must be some good in him.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It is entirely possible to love someone without, one, blindly ignoring that person's attitude and behavior, and two, putting up with a load of bull**** in the name of "unconditional love" or "believing in the best." I call the former foolishness, I call the latter "being a doormat."

    It is also entirely possible to judge people by reason, in fact, I'd say that's the best way to determine whether another person can be trusted or is good to have in our lives at a given time.

    I'm glad it worked out for Padme and Luke in the end, but there is absolutely no way that anyone could looked ahead from 19 BBY and known that they were right. They were very lucky that their gamble paid off; without having statistics, I'd say there are far, far more people in our world who make such blind and risky gambles and lose.
     
  4. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    I'm no theologist, but I'm pretty sure that being a saint doesn't mean you're perfect. Some have been sainted for one action alone, and I think Luke's faith in his father qualifies him, imo.

    ---

    if you go by Christiology,

    everyone who believes in Christ is a saint, for what that is worth :p

    but anyhoo, carry on carry on..
     
  5. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    It's not blindly ignoring people's attitude and behavior, but keep some faith, that there is still good in him. You know him, you know he once was a good friend, and you have no faith on him now, thought he changed totally?

    And if you want to say, Obi Wan is the blind one, the blind one who could not see there is still good in Anakin, and glad Luke didn't listen to him.

    If Luke didn't "gamble" with love and killed Vader, what would happen? He would be consumed by darkness because he didn't want to kill his father, it would take tremendous amount of anger and hate for him to do it, and he would replace Vader, which is exactly what the Emperor wanted.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Tell me again what reason Obi-Wan had for believing there was good in Anakin after Mustafar?

    And no sugar-coated romantic tripe about "that's what friendship is" or "what Padme said." I'm looking for concrete reasons.

    And "keeping faith" in spite of the reality that is right in front of one's face, is blindly ignoring attitude and behavior.
     
  7. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    As for reason and gamble? What's a bigger gamble? Anakin still has good in him, or Luke could kill his own father without being consumed of darkness?
     
  8. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Anakin fell to the Dark Side because of love, he had good time with Obi Wan for many years before it. And affection itself is the reason to believe it.

    If you cannot understand love, you cannot understand hate as well. That's why Obi Wan would want to let Luke to kill his father. Sure he knew about good and evil, but didn't know if you want someone to kill someone he cared, it would either take great hate and anger, or let him become cold and ruthless, both ways lead to the Dark Side. That's the Emperor encouraged Luke to kill Vader.
     
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LMAO.

    You keep telling yourself that. I'm much happier calling a spade, a spade.
     
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  10. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    the thing you are forgetting SP is a thing called the darkside ofthe force.

    According to the Jedi, once the darkside has took control of you "forever will it dominate your destiny"

    Obi-Wan was very old school when it came to Jedi traditions,

    Luke was new to all this Jedi stuff and wasn't trained from a toddler, there for able to see things from a new perspective

    That is the difference,
     
  11. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    And it worked, rather than Obi Wan's plan, which would doom people.
     
  12. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    "Only a Sith deals with absolutes ", that's from him, but he didn't realize he was not different on it. But Qui Gon Jinn thought different than him.

    And I must say he didn't really know about the danger or the Dark Side, otherwise it's super stupid to let Luke kill his own father, with the Emperor aside to corrupt him.
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Doesn't matter what "worked," it matters what could be expected from anyone prior to 3 ABY who did not know the outcome.

    Foresight was not something I expected from Obi-Wan, and Luke and Padme gambled, period.
     
  14. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    From what we could see, even "believe in Anakin's good" is more reasonable than "Luke could kill his dad without falling to the Dark Side."
     
  15. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    that's what I'm saying

    The PT Jedi failed because of their dogmatic ways

    Luke's way was: redemption is possible

    old Jedi way: x=darkside x is forever bad

    Obi really believed Anakin was not redeemable hense "only a master of evil"

    besides all that:

    Anakin destroyed the Jedi order and betrayed them to their sworn enemy: the sith.

    Anakin knew what the Sith stood for "the sith rely on their passion for their strengh, they think inward, only about themselves".. yet he joined them anyway.

    All in all, if my student turned on me and joined my sworn foe, I think i'd be pretty pissed too.


    Also: as been mentioned, not everyone thinks exactly alike, sure you could forgive someone who destroyed your whole family and collegues, but there are many who wouldn't give you the time of day, it's human nature.

    Some of us are introverts, some us are extroverts,

    some of us prefer the colour black, some of us prefer the colour white

    some us think the podrace is awful, some of us think it was quite cool and entertaining.

    Obi-Wan is just a different person than Luke and Padme is, but not any less ethical than them.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    I think he should not be that stubborn, since both Qui Gon Jinn and Dooku are not like that.
     
  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    It was clones.
     
  18. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    well "helped" destroy

    no need to be pedantic dude
     
  19. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Actually, it was Palpatine. But yes, Anakin definitely helped.
     
  20. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Yeah, those kids looked pretty tough...
     
  21. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    He didn't just kill the kids, he's killing other Jedi in the recordings. And he did give orders to the clones I assume. It's just what Lucas chose to make an emphasis on. Which pissed off a lot Vader's fans. I mean, cool villains are not supposed to kill kids, right?
     
  22. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2012
    He did kill a lot a lot of kids in OT, don't forget Tarkin gave the order but he was responsible for Alderaan's destruction as well.
     
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    While more of a bystander than an actor in the destruction of Alderaan (Tarkin gave the order- the gunners carried it out)- he wasn't exactly making any effort to stop him- and as the Emperor's right-hand man, he could have done so. In The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader, he questions Tarkin's decision beforehand- but (while convinced Tarkin's insane) he accepts it- and says to himself, of Leia, "You brought this on yourself."
     
  24. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    Anakin destroyed the Sith? Only Anakin?
     
  25. TheMadHatter

    TheMadHatter Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2009
    since when did I say that?

    well Anakin did destroy the sith (if you ignore EU)

    but please read the sentence again..