PT Prequel's Anakin

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    It depends on your definition of "sainthood". If we go by "unconditional love", none of the Star Wars characters are fully there. Not even Yoda. And that's actually a good thing in book as it makes them more human.
  2. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Affection is the reason, and Padme knew Anakin well, she knew Anakin fell because of love, so there must be some good in him.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It is entirely possible to love someone without, one, blindly ignoring that person's attitude and behavior, and two, putting up with a load of bull**** in the name of "unconditional love" or "believing in the best." I call the former foolishness, I call the latter "being a doormat."

    It is also entirely possible to judge people by reason, in fact, I'd say that's the best way to determine whether another person can be trusted or is good to have in our lives at a given time.

    I'm glad it worked out for Padme and Luke in the end, but there is absolutely no way that anyone could looked ahead from 19 BBY and known that they were right. They were very lucky that their gamble paid off; without having statistics, I'd say there are far, far more people in our world who make such blind and risky gambles and lose.
  4. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I'm no theologist, but I'm pretty sure that being a saint doesn't mean you're perfect. Some have been sainted for one action alone, and I think Luke's faith in his father qualifies him, imo.

    ---

    if you go by Christiology,

    everyone who believes in Christ is a saint, for what that is worth :p

    but anyhoo, carry on carry on..
  5. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    It's not blindly ignoring people's attitude and behavior, but keep some faith, that there is still good in him. You know him, you know he once was a good friend, and you have no faith on him now, thought he changed totally?

    And if you want to say, Obi Wan is the blind one, the blind one who could not see there is still good in Anakin, and glad Luke didn't listen to him.

    If Luke didn't "gamble" with love and killed Vader, what would happen? He would be consumed by darkness because he didn't want to kill his father, it would take tremendous amount of anger and hate for him to do it, and he would replace Vader, which is exactly what the Emperor wanted.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Dec 11, 2012
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Tell me again what reason Obi-Wan had for believing there was good in Anakin after Mustafar?

    And no sugar-coated romantic tripe about "that's what friendship is" or "what Padme said." I'm looking for concrete reasons.

    And "keeping faith" in spite of the reality that is right in front of one's face, is blindly ignoring attitude and behavior.
  7. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    As for reason and gamble? What's a bigger gamble? Anakin still has good in him, or Luke could kill his own father without being consumed of darkness?
  8. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin fell to the Dark Side because of love, he had good time with Obi Wan for many years before it. And affection itself is the reason to believe it.

    If you cannot understand love, you cannot understand hate as well. That's why Obi Wan would want to let Luke to kill his father. Sure he knew about good and evil, but didn't know if you want someone to kill someone he cared, it would either take great hate and anger, or let him become cold and ruthless, both ways lead to the Dark Side. That's the Emperor encouraged Luke to kill Vader.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    LMAO.

    You keep telling yourself that. I'm much happier calling a spade, a spade.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  10. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    the thing you are forgetting SP is a thing called the darkside ofthe force.

    According to the Jedi, once the darkside has took control of you "forever will it dominate your destiny"

    Obi-Wan was very old school when it came to Jedi traditions,

    Luke was new to all this Jedi stuff and wasn't trained from a toddler, there for able to see things from a new perspective

    That is the difference,
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    And it worked, rather than Obi Wan's plan, which would doom people.
  12. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    "Only a Sith deals with absolutes ", that's from him, but he didn't realize he was not different on it. But Qui Gon Jinn thought different than him.

    And I must say he didn't really know about the danger or the Dark Side, otherwise it's super stupid to let Luke kill his own father, with the Emperor aside to corrupt him.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Dec 11, 2012
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Doesn't matter what "worked," it matters what could be expected from anyone prior to 3 ABY who did not know the outcome.

    Foresight was not something I expected from Obi-Wan, and Luke and Padme gambled, period.
  14. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    From what we could see, even "believe in Anakin's good" is more reasonable than "Luke could kill his dad without falling to the Dark Side."
  15. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    that's what I'm saying

    The PT Jedi failed because of their dogmatic ways

    Luke's way was: redemption is possible

    old Jedi way: x=darkside x is forever bad

    Obi really believed Anakin was not redeemable hense "only a master of evil"

    besides all that:

    Anakin destroyed the Jedi order and betrayed them to their sworn enemy: the sith.

    Anakin knew what the Sith stood for "the sith rely on their passion for their strengh, they think inward, only about themselves".. yet he joined them anyway.

    All in all, if my student turned on me and joined my sworn foe, I think i'd be pretty pissed too.


    Also: as been mentioned, not everyone thinks exactly alike, sure you could forgive someone who destroyed your whole family and collegues, but there are many who wouldn't give you the time of day, it's human nature.

    Some of us are introverts, some us are extroverts,

    some of us prefer the colour black, some of us prefer the colour white

    some us think the podrace is awful, some of us think it was quite cool and entertaining.

    Obi-Wan is just a different person than Luke and Padme is, but not any less ethical than them.
    Last edited by Sistros, Dec 11, 2012
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I think he should not be that stubborn, since both Qui Gon Jinn and Dooku are not like that.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It was clones.
  18. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    well "helped" destroy

    no need to be pedantic dude
  19. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Actually, it was Palpatine. But yes, Anakin definitely helped.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yeah, those kids looked pretty tough...
  21. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    He didn't just kill the kids, he's killing other Jedi in the recordings. And he did give orders to the clones I assume. It's just what Lucas chose to make an emphasis on. Which pissed off a lot Vader's fans. I mean, cool villains are not supposed to kill kids, right?
  22. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He did kill a lot a lot of kids in OT, don't forget Tarkin gave the order but he was responsible for Alderaan's destruction as well.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    While more of a bystander than an actor in the destruction of Alderaan (Tarkin gave the order- the gunners carried it out)- he wasn't exactly making any effort to stop him- and as the Emperor's right-hand man, he could have done so. In The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader, he questions Tarkin's decision beforehand- but (while convinced Tarkin's insane) he accepts it- and says to himself, of Leia, "You brought this on yourself."
  24. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Anakin destroyed the Sith? Only Anakin?
  25. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    since when did I say that?

    well Anakin did destroy the sith (if you ignore EU)

    but please read the sentence again..
    Last edited by TheMadHatter, Dec 12, 2012
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