Saga Prequels or originals?

Yeah, but to a traumatized person, that's about as helpful as telling them to stop having flashbacks. Even if they know, logically, that they're no longer in danger that doesn't mean they feel safe.

I just find it very odd when people say Anakin should just be able to ignore his visions, as though watching someone you love die screaming in pain night after night isn't destabilizing, especially when you've already gone through the very real experience once before.

 

I've never suggested he ignore them. Rather he should've applied Jedi teaching to enable himself to deal with the situation. I'm sure he wouldn't have been the first person in the order to face such a situation and deal with it thus.

 

There is no sound in space. Maybe we should destroy all of our Star Wars DVDs because they certainly don't work according the our physics, biology and science.

So ruling out possibilities is suddenly intelligent? That's news to me.
It was very advisable for Anakin to keep as many options available as possible. And that as long as possible.

So people are not even allowed to be impulsive now?
I always thought his murders were the problem, because this is the only point that sets Anakin apart (since every single Star Wars character before and after Anakin believed in their visions)?

But that's an ESB quote. Episode V takes place after Episode III. There was a reason why Yoda didn't say anything like that to Anakin in Episode III. Yoda, in ROTS, never questiones the accuracy of Force visions. He just says they were dangerous because they could lead to the dark side. Palpatine, even worse, made it look like Anakins visions would come true without a doubt, playing with Anakin's fears, making him weak and accessible.

Not a single Force user in that film called Force visions into question. So why would Anakin, who had experienced them with his mother own his own hand, suddenly question them? Why?
And don't bring up primitive medical care when there is the Force!

The best medical care is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

The most adcanved medical care fails at times.

Dreams and visions are not the same.

 

Who's shifting goalposts? You said that what he did was rational and was not driven by his emotions, and I pointed out that he was. Just because you don't like the fact that he was an emotional douche in the original trilogy doesn't mean it can be flat out ignored.

 

Your argument started out as Vader wasn't stupid and irrational in the OT in the first place. Now it's "he's nowhere near as stupid and irrational" as he was in ROTS. Which one is it? One indicates he's rational and one indicates he somewhat isn't. Which position are you taking?

As far as your question, I didn't avoid it. I simply refuse to continue to go over a point in circles with you pertaining Anakin believing in Palpatine's promises. I already explained that Palpatine had been working Anakin over for years, and you choose to ignore it.

 

Hard to agree with that since Vader in the OT is what he is as a result of Anakin's actions in ROTS.

We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point.

 

Yoda questions whether the prophecy (a vision) may have been misread. Implication: visions can be misread.

If dreams aren't visions, then presumably someone told Anakin that he didn't need to worry himself about the nightmares he'd been having.

 

Because they're not lies, "obvious" or otherwise; they happen to be true. Not so obvious after all. Maybe Palpatine suspects there's a difference between lying to the Senate and lying to a Jedi? It's important to remember that things are not always what they seem at first glance, despite TCW's apparent determination to prove otherwise.

And thus he had actual evidence that dark side powers exist. If one dark side power exists, another can exist. Or is Anakin supposed to assume that only one dark side power exists? It seems that in actuality Anakin is far more logical than you would like him to be.

 

To save someone from death wouldn't grant lasting immortality, or invulnerability. In fact, the only time the film used the word immortality was to describe Qui-Gon's Force ghosting.

That's why it's an analogy. When a doctor gets killed, no one ever says "If this guy could save people, why couldn't he save himself?" Because that completely fails to make sense. The same applies to Plagueis.

Dark side powers require the dark side, and dark side users use the dark side. Seems pretty straightforward. Then there's the fact that Anakin is hardly a representative of what just "any" Force user would be capable of.

Force-users get killed all the time in the films. But you knew that, right?

 

Anakin's midichlorian count probably gives him the impression that he can do anything that other Force-users have done.

 

I'm not saying that because only one dark side power is evidenced, that there would be an assumption that only one exists.

I'm saying that JUST because one dark side power is evidenced, there's not an assumption that another specific, non-evidenced power need necessarily exist.

Two completely separate systems of logic, surely?

 

No. If some other dark side user had achieved a certain power, what is there to prevent a more midichlorianated dark side user from achieving the same power?

 

So what? Having the power to save others doesn't make you unkillable. Not to mention that in the film's version of events he was killed in his sleep ( before the EU's retcon ). People who are asleep don't tend to save much of anything in that condition. Because Yoda can lift rocks with the Force, does that mean he can also fly around in the air like a bird?

Anakin isn't trying to save himself, he's trying to save someone else. If Plagueis developed the power to save someone else, what's to stop the even more midichlorianated Anakin from learning the power to save someone else?

 

Nothing, if such a power actually exists, and at the time of Anakin's turn, nothing other than Sidious' word suggests that it does (and even then, it needs to be (re)discovered).

 

But Palpatine did know that, and Anakin knows that the power isn't going to come from the Jedi.

It's not really off-the-wall since it proceeds from a bunch of building blocks that are already in place. It would be off-the-wall in the real world, but SW is far from the real world and Anakin is far from an average person even in his own universe. He knows about dark side powers - he's even been hit by them. He doesn't even have to trust Palpatine to get the idea that the dark side is his only chance to get what he wants. And people seem to overlook that even if he doesn't buy the idea that Palpatine doesn't have the power despite Plagueis supposedly having had it, he's still likely to understand that Palpatine wants to hold back the power until Anakin has done his bidding and to play along accordingly.

Plagueis did seek immortality for himself, but that aspiration alone didn't somehow make him invulnerable to death. The power he was said to have achieved was just the ability to save others from death. Having that power doesn't automatically equate to being unkillable any more than Yoda lifting an X-wing while in deep concentration means that he could do equally well while being shot with a machine gun.

Anyone who believed that Yoda could fly without proof would be an idiot? I'm not so sure that's the word you would want to use there. Because someone who believed that Yoda could fly would merely be guilty of the following kind of thinking: if you can levitate a rock, you can levitate yourself! Which is like saying: if you can save others from death, you can save yourself!

Exactly.

That goes both ways; nothing suggests that it doesn't. ( And in the EU it does happen to exist. )