Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Rolf Larsen, Mar 8, 2014.
I've grown up with video games and still think CGI looks fake (most of the time).
I do think part of the distaste for CGI, though, is unwarranted. There was a Reddit thread a few days ago about how not a single piece of clone trooper armor was ever made -- that they were all CGI. A lot of Redditors hadn't realized this, but as soon as they read the OP's post, they started complaining. And all I could think was, "Seriously? You were just fine with it before but now that you were told it's CGI, you feel some kind of obligation to moan and whine about it?"
That's the issue right here. Same like Garret still complaining about the lava in ROTS. Even though he now knows that it was mostly real, he's complained about it so long that he now has to keep saying it 'looks like CGI' and is somehow therefore fake looking. Its perception, not reality.
I've heard someone say that "the CGI looks fake" in reference to what were actually life-size models (beginning of Episode III, the Eta-2 class interceptors were life-size real props, and someone called them CGI), so I have a suspicion that a lot of the people who say the CGI looks fake are just jumping on the prequel hate-badwagon because everyone else is.
Not true. I always thought the CGI looked fake and could easily pick out scenes with a lot of it. The Anakin-Obi-Wan Temple Scenes seem to suffer through some of the worst in ROTS, as do the Kamino scenes in AOTC.
The lava was CGI for the close-up shots obviously, I know there was some modeling job done (which still looks poor IMO).
Kamino has actually a ton of model-work. The room Obi-Wan meets the Prime minister in is a model. Exterior shots are models (with the exception of the rain). There's actually photos of the Mythbusters working on them.
After revisiting ESB a while back after several years of not watching any Star Wars I was taken aback by how much the Yoda puppet stood out as, well, a puppet. Definitely didn't perceive it as more of a "real" character. If anything, the CG model stands out to me as being more lifelike when we get little human motions like Yoda tiredly rubbing his hand over the top of his head.
Not that I would want the puppet replaced, though. I'm cool with different effect styles, whether they resemble a video game (PT) or a toy (OT). Neither of those two comparisons are a pejorative for me.
That seen has quite enough suspension-of-disbelief issues/problems irregardless of it being 'mostly real' or mostly CGI or whatnot. Disparaging Garrett's viewpoint won't fix those problems.
Yes, but it also has a ton of CG-work, which makes the place look both fake and way too clean.
It's a cloning facility. It'd better be damn sterile.
It's looks fake. What does being a cloning facility have to do with it?
You stated it looks way too clean. It's a cloning facility in a high-tech setting. There's no such thing as "way too clean." Have you ever been in any kind of biological research center?
You don't get what I'm saying when I say "clean." I mean unrealistic, cartoony, not a speck on the walls-type clean. The exact same can be said about the Jedi Temple.
The Jedi Temple I can see your point, but not the cloning facility.
They have the technology to mass produce human beings. They live in a galaxy with easy space travel. There is absolutely NO excuse for that place not to be completely spotless given what it functions as and the level of technology they have at their disposal.
I do like both, but the Prequels are just better to me.
I voted both, but the OT films are better critically I think. More consistent, and more believable... particularly character wise. The prequels work better symbolically, and I have more of a personal connection to these movies (particularly TPM and ROTS), but I think it is fairly easy to say the OT are better movies when looked at objectively. I dunno, the prequels can be pretty intense, but it feels less like a real world and more detatched from reality, which can help it as a fantasy series, but has it's downside when you are trying to feel a consistent flow through six episodes. The prequels are definitely more ambitious, and each film works at enhancing the context of other episodes more than the OT by a fair bit. I'm generally happy they were made.
On the topic of CGI realism... Kamino looks a little too bright for me.
@PiettsHat makes a good point about the needed sterility of the facility, but it is still probably one of my least favourite locations to be honest. And I totally see the fakeness of the ROTS inner Jedi Temple, although mostly just in the scene between Obi-Wan and Anakin discussing Anakin spying on Palpatine. The look of the walls kind of take me out of it... what you can see out the window looks good, but the wall surrounding the windows themselves seem kinda lazily animated.
Man, all this Kamino hate. Kamino is, by far, my favorite planet in the Saga
Over in the "Practical Effects in the Prequels- Sets, Pictures, Models, etc." thread, on page 3, there is actually a shot that shows that they didn't use CGI for Kamino, but actual models for both the exterior and parts of, if not all of, the interior.
Yeah, the "throne room" is obviously a set, but the hallway is definitely CGI.
No, somewhere in that thread there is a shot of the hallway miniature.
Edit: Yeah, it's on page 3.
Exactly, but it was mistaken as a miniature, when really it's just a shot from one of the computers creating the CGI. Watch the AOTC documentaries for proof.
Others on this thread already falsified your argument.
Err, not quite sure what you're trying to say here ("alternative tonal and genre approached). Maybe you can help clear things up a little.
Regarding the "noir feeling" in AOTC: all I can spot there are scenes blatantly ripped-off from the awesomeness that is BLADE RUNNER, sometimes almost shot-for-shot (like when they fly over the industrial landscape complete with BLADE RUNNER gas flares and all).
With all due respect, this is utter nonsense. "Mythological volume" and "comparative folklore"? I doubt that you can fill those big words with real content and substance. Tragedy, mystery, prophecy and romance are all things that can be found throughout the OT. The only thing that the PT looked upon is the OT. That's where the PT draws ALL its inspirations. I guess some guy wanted it to be like poetry, so that the ripped-off scenes rhyme...
How do you know that the PT (is that a character now?) does not care if I like it or not? And it what department EXACTLY is the PT "bolder" and "more challenging" that the OT? Please give also an example that shows how the OT does want me to like it (and cares).
The noir-ness of AOTC is everywhere EXCEPT the action scenes. Obi-wan's detective work and Anakin and Padme's whole melodrama are all flavored by the 30's. Sure the OT had Han and Leia as a romantic subplot, but the romance of Anakin and Padme is pivotal to the whole plot of the PT. Of course certain PT themes are echoed from the OT, but the PT attacks those themes headlong and direct. It's a different animal. The two trilogies each explore themes that the other doesn't.
Star Wars is and has always been a study of comparative mythology. That goes way back to the the original movie that replicated "The Hero with a Thousand Faces". ESB covers the confrontation with what Karl Jung called the "shadow self", or that which one refuses to face about themselves (Luke in the cave and vs. Vader). RotJ is about self-actualization, becoming the person who you truly are (Luke as a Jedi, Vader as Anakin the redeemed man).
TPM is light on the mythological connections but unique in that it shows a Star War in the singular, and shows you how things work in this galaxy on a small scale: Jedi protect things, Sith dupe people, rebels rise up when bad guys take over, etc. AotC and RotS couple together thematically rather well, as we see duplicitous process through which a benevolent society can become a dictatorship (like ancient Roman history), as well as the temptation and fall from grace (Paradise Lost, anyone?).
It's interesting that you mention poetry up there since my favorite part about Star Wars is how it can be read like a poem - a big, audiovisual epic poem. But the fact remains that the PT does not feel quite the same as the OT. If the PT really got all its inspiration from the OT, I have a feeling you would have liked it a lot more. We obviously won't be changing our minds about this anytime soon just by contradicting each others perceptions.
Same goes for
@Garrett Atkins and
@PiettsHat up there. "It's a model!" "But it doesn't look like one!" "But it is!" "But it's got GC all over it!" "But it's still a model!"
Perhaps this thread should consider another approach if it is to survive... I mean it's been pretty much mostly civil so far... But I'm outta here soon as I gotta start dodging chairs.