pro-life or pro-choice?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by BoutyPunkrAurra, Oct 31, 2001.

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  1. PurpleSaberJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 1
    AG- going back to pg. 28, you asked me whether I thought it was right or not for married couples to have abortions. I don't know how you got that out of me saying that it isn't always singles that have abortions?!?!? All I meant was, they aren't always juveniles with no sense in their brains. Sometimes it's people who believe it's right and make heartfelt decisions. I'm not teetering either way with this one post, just explaining what I meant and staying dead center.

    I also have two quick questions. This is open to anyone of any belief: Say abortion was outlawed, what should we do to/with those who have abortions illegally?

    If abortion is outlawed for "murder," than shouldn't those mothers who drink and smoke eccesively be punished also for they are killing their babies?
  2. PurpleSaberJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 1
    come on little thread! live! live!! up!
  3. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    Little thread? Yeah right. :D

    I haven't read the entire thread, and with over 600 posts, I'm not going to, at least not right now! I just wanted to make my opinion clear on this. I am definitely pro-life, and I don't think very highly of pro-choice activists. It's just my opinion, but anyone who would kill something that could be a great life someday is not exactly the type of person I'd like to make friends with, or probably even have tea with. It just unsettles the ol' gut some.
  4. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    It must sadden you to know that an overwhelming majority of the popoulation is for a woman's right to choose will only a small vocal minority stands to circumvent the constitution with their conservative attitude.
  5. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah legal murder does sadden me.

    All life deserves a shot to live.
  6. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I take it every one of you people who is pro-life is also anti-death penalty. I am anti-death penalty, and I can respect the notion of pro-life only if it isn't hypocritical.
  7. King-Jellyrobes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2001
    star 1
    You're damn right it saddens me. Abortion is playing God.. or worse, it's playing the ultimate evil. God plans every life. By shutting that life down, I doubt you are looked upon favorably by either Him or a large slice of your fellow man.
  8. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    Does god plan genetic defects in babies?
  9. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    It's not about life, Jedi_Xen. Bacteria on your body is 'life.' So obviously there is something that seperates humans from other life that makes us consider it more special and worthy of constitutional rights.
  10. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
  11. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    BTW, I strongly advise avoiding the link I just offered if you are in any way easily offended.

    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

    The basic essence of it is: we have been playing God for centuries e.g. agriculture; furthermore, it is inappropriate to impose individual religious constrictions upon everyone in a multireligious country.
  12. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    "By shutting that life down, I doubt you are looked upon favorably by either Him or a large slice of your fellow man.."

    -Two points. 1, what about the death penalty? and 2, maybe a large slice, but the majority of man and I are ok, just religous right and conservative folk, but I don't get along with them anyway...Also, it might surprise you to know that I am in no way connected with abortion, I'm not an abortion doctor, lobbyist, I have never voted on it either way. It's already legal and I'm allright with that, and so is everybody else.
  13. PurpleSaberJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 1
    I myself am against the death-penalty, not because I can't stand to let people die, but because people can be on death row FOREVER. Writing their little autobiographies, shattering our safe feeling at home by doing interview after interview broadcasted all over our country.

    The death penalty is also a very, very pleasant way to die. I am not a revengeful person, I like to stay away from revenge. But, it is certainly not fair for those who massly murder to recieve a lovely, peaceful, non-painful in any way sort of death.

    I know, this thread is about pro-choice and pro-life. My apologises, I got swept away. So...

    Tell me, have you ever met a "mean fetus?" Have you ever met a fetus filled with hate and rage that it had been plotting for years to kill or destroy? To tell you the truth, I really haven't. You can't compare the ruthless gestures and criminal hearts of those people who are sentenced to the death penalty to innocent fetuses who haven't developed fingers and toes. (Let alone any body strutcure) A totally irrational comparison. An innocent person is most RARELY killed by death penalty. How many innocent lives are killed by abortion? This comparison simply doesn't work.

    "It's already legal and I'm allright with that, and so is everybody else."
    Have you read this thread? Many, many people not just in this thread but around the world would devote their very lives to see that it is illegal. If you're okay with it, that's your opinion. Not everyone elses.
  14. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    The argument that fetuses are not human and do not deserve basic human rights because they are just a ball of cells/they have no functioning organs/are solely dependent on their mother are no different than:

    1) People with Down Syndrome are not human because they have an extra chromosome and their brains are not developed as fully as ours are.

    2) Senior citizens in nursing homes have no rights because they cannot live by themselves with out the help of nurses.

    3) Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians have no rights because they do not look like us.

    Another point that needs refutation is the argument that whatever the Supreme Court says is right and good and should not be changed. I urge all people who support this argument to tell the African-Americans in this country that they do not have any rights. While your at that, why don't you go so far as to force all the African-Americans back on to plantations in chains.
    The Supreme Court supported keeping the blacks in bondage for almost a century and held up restrictions on them for almost two centuries.

    The Constitution is not much better. When it was first created, and for many years after that, blacks counted as 3/5 of a person. The Constitution obviously thought that blacks where not quite human, just like many pro-choicers and the Supreme Court think today about embryos and fetuses.

    Laws and courts can be wrong. When they are, the laws need to be changed and the courts reformed.
  15. megHan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2001
    star 1
    i haven't read all of the posts, just don't have that kinda time on my hands. my opinion is this: i'm pro-life. i think that abortion is murder when you are killing something that could become a great addition or help to society and a wonderful person. in the same way, it could become another convict on death row, but so could anyone else. when you practice abortion, you are killing something that has no way to defend itself.
  16. keiran_helcyan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 4
    I think all fetuses at least deserve a shot at life. Doesn't our nation's own Declaration of Independence say "We are enowed by certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness". Shouldn't we at least give our people a shot at life then?

    And who's to say a fetus isn't living? What makes a child one minute after being born different, from the same child one minute before being born? What makes a child 8 months developed different from a child 9 months developed? A child 3 months developed (the magical date set by the supreme court) different from a child 2 months and 29 days developed? The simple fact is, we can't really pinpoint the "exact moment" the child becomes "living". Brain waves, heart beating, its all one long process, at no point can we accurately say "Ah-ha! Now its living! We can't terminate it now!" To just say the unborn child is dead in all cases is foolish and near-sighted; it'd be like finding your Grandma collapsed on the floor and going "oh well she's probably dead, might as well just burry her now".

    Oh and FYI when I say I'm pro-life I mean it: anti-abortion, and anti-capital punishment. Life is precious, don't toss it out unless you have no other option.
  17. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Big difference between abortion and Death Penalty.

    Abortion: Kills innocent unborn child.

    Death Penalty: Kills convicted felon, usually for murder.
  18. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    Jediflyer,
    WTF are you talking about?

    Jedi_Xen,
    "Abortion: Kills innocent unborn child.

    Death Penalty: Kills convicted felon, usually for murder."

    Abortion: Kills something that will eventually become human, but at the present is not.

    Dealth Penalty: Kills someone we hope actually committed the murder he was convicted for.
  19. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    The Supreme Court can indeed be "wrong", but remember that its sole function is to interpret the law, not to make it. In allowing abortion, the courts are simply saying "under the framework of our current law, it is okay". They aren't bringing morals or natural law into it; they are simply interpreting what the current legal framework says.

    If a law was passed against abortion, the opinion of the Supreme Court would change because they would be bound to enforce that law.
  20. keiran_helcyan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 4
    "If a law was passed against abortion, the opinion of the Supreme Court would change because they would be bound to enforce that law."

    Um, what are you on? About 2/3 of the states in the US passed laws against partial-birth abortion only to have them over-turned as unconstutional. Not only can the court rule on existing laws, but toss them out entirely. They're almost all powerful, except of course that they don't have the ability to enforce their decisions.
  21. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    "I take it every one of you people who is pro-life is also anti-death penalty. I am anti-death penalty, and I can respect the notion of pro-life only if it isn't hypocritical. "

    "Abortion: Kills something that will eventually become human, but at the present is not.

    Dealth Penalty: Kills someone we hope actually committed the murder he was convicted for."



    I think I'll put my $.02 into the pot. I am part of that third category, pro-responsability, that says if you have sex, be prepared to accept the consequences. If you are forced to have sex (incest, rape), I can accept a woman using abortion. Of course, it must be used when the mother's life is in danger (ectopic pregnancy). But if you decide to go to a party, get drunk and have unprotected sex, if you and your partner of thirty years decide to have a night of wonderful abandon but with protection, realize that a baby is a possability, that since the first purpose of sexual congress is to reproduce (take that, hedonists ;) ) you shouldn't be surprised when Aunt Flow decides not to visit the next month. If in those cases the woman or couple decide to have an abortion I see that as blatantly wrong and a sign if irresponsability. If you can't handle driving, leave the car in the garage.

    Onto the death penalty. I am also a supporter of it and feel it is a necessary evil in our society. When crimes of such a degree are committed and the criminal shows no signs or remorse, reform or responsability for his/her actions, they do not deserve a long stay in a gov't funded prison with three hots and a cot. I believe the death penalty "waiting period" should be shortened to six months max; if you cannot produce evidence why your client is innocent or shouldn't be strung up by then, you won't. We have the technology right now; this isn't the early eighties waiting for nineties tech to roll around. The years of whining and filibustering the final flip of the switch wastes time, money and manpower that can be devoted to other more imporant things. Six months after the guilty verdict and sentence are handed down, the prisoner is put to death not by lethal injection, but by a way that puts a touch of pain into his/her last moments. Don't give them an easy way out. Choose the noose, if you want a slogan.

    I think I've gone about as far right as I want today. :D
  22. No blasters! Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2000
    star 4
    "be prepared to accept the consequences. If you are forced to have sex (incest, rape), I can accept a woman using abortion."

    If it's wrong to "kill" an "innocent", then it's wrong regardless of circumstances of conception. How is the fetus produced through rape any less "deserving" than one conceived through consnesual sex?

    It isn't.

    If it's wrong to terminate one pregnancy, it's wrong on all counts.

    Frank:

    My response is being typed (slowly!) and being saved on my harddrive. Answer to follow shortly. (Within the next few days.)
  23. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    The whole "wrong to kill a life" thing is a pro-life point of view, not mine. I just want people to be accountable and responsible for their actions.

    The difference between a rape/incest abortion and a consentual sex abortion is as followed: in one, you had a choice, in the other, the child was forced onto you without your opinion thrown in. Though the life is the same, responsability is not. Frankly, I wouldn't like to see abortion in any cases just because it opens to door to some very touchy "this is my body" arguments that I don't want to get into. I also think it will be and is abused as a cowardly way to get out of an unwanted situation.
  24. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I can't believe anyone who believes so strongly in the sanctity of life as you pro-lifers would allow a barbaric, racist, class-driven institution like the death penalty. It is unfair especially towards the poor who can't hire lawyers. And SO many times there have been cases where innocent people have been executed.

    How can any of you just say "well, a few innocent people die, but who cares?"

    As for the evil criminals, I'll speak to you Christians. Don't you think they deserve at least the time in jail to repent their sins? Isn't every living soul capable of forgiveness?
  25. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    Every soul is capable and deserving of forgiveness, but not all desire it. It's sad, but true.
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