Problems with fueding between EU and Non-EU Supporters on Film forum

The EU is Canon

 

Thats a good guideline Gandolf.

As for this:

EP, if you don't like EU discussion in the movie forums, just ignore it. It's not that hard to do.


Physician, heal thyself.

 

Just keep in mind the corollary to that

Purists. No rejecting theories purely because they are EU. If you see an EU idea presented as an answer, and you don't agree with it, politely state your disagreement. Say, "Well, that answer is from the EU, I think it happens this way instead..." Don't go off on tangents about how the EU sux, and how Zahn in a talentless hack, or how the NJO is destroying your life. Continue on with the discussion in a normal way. The EU is just another idea to be presented for discussion.

 

Dang! I knew there was a catch.

 

There's always a catch.

 

Whenever a discussion arises about continuity problems, and how AoTC has OBVIOUSLY cracked open a few EU claims, Bib or someone like him pops up and begins letting loose their typing hands.

Criticisms of the Expanded Universe and problems of continunity therein should probably go in the Lit. forum.

Why is it so wrong to want to keep the movie forums strictly about the movies? Why can't EU people engage in discussions and speculation about the movies, based solely on the movies, without having to interject what opinions and answers the EU might have to offer?

There is nothing wrong with talking about the movies in the movie forum. I think you just have to accept that when questions are asked that cannot be answered from what solely the films tell us, the EU will always be involved in some form. A good example would be if someone asked what ever happend to Kenobi's lightsaber. I would answer that with the EU because it says exactly what happened to it. However, I would preface it with According to... because it's forums rules and personally, I don't have a problem qualifying my answer. If I didn't force it down your throats and declare it the only answer, and I still respected your right to speculate, and purists didn't respond with EU-sucks, not Canon etc., we wouldn't have a problem.

keeping the film forums for the film fans.

So me being a Lit fan disqaulifies me from being a movie fan? ?


Edit: I didn't write this as a member of the EUDF, these are just my views. Also, i didn't see the back down order, so if anyone gets punished, it should just be me.

 

Im completly behind Gandolf, bout time someone listned. Members of the EUDF have been going into the film frums and shoving EU down purists faces, thats not a way for us to get popular.

I also think more respect needs to be given to the opposite side on both debates. EUers, make a friend of a purist, talk to one, I did, and they are preety nice. Purists, make freinds with a EUer, while discussing your issues on continuity, you may find you have more in common then you think.

Last thing to be said is basically that GL probobly doesn't approve of ALL EU, but Im sure he has found some interesting, taking it back to a personal canon. I mean, relaxe, just like George, and enjoy whatever kind of star wars for what it is. The kids, for Jar Jar, the girlfreinds for Padme, the frustrated teens, for anakin...

Oh gosh, Im getting to emotional

 

It's very pointless if you think about it.

EUers vs. Purists...

--O.W.

 

Um, it is not forum policy to say "according to EU," nor should it be.

 

Because both sides dont stop?

 

Because the purists bash/flame the EU and/or the user.

 

There's another side to that coin Bib.

EDIT: And it has a picture of you wearing a bad wig on it.

 

I don't recall throwing any insults around here. Are you seeing something I'm not?

 

No Bib, they start when either side starts throwing insults and/or accusations around. Like the one that you just threw. The one that have earned you a ban.

 

Answer a question for our benefit:

Just how, when, & most importantly WHY do they degenerate into EU/Canon flame wars?

It usually starts from the EU poster stating that old "bugaboo" about and we'd better get used to it! Or maybe from some posters' refusal to be open to debate, or discussion, but feel the need to impress their opinions on others, irregardless.

or their 'holier-than-thou' attitudes..

Allow me to present Bib as Exhibit A in this matter.

Does that answer your question?

 

...aaaah! There we go! In my meditations on anger & hatred, the flames spanning from the Jedi Council forums were so powerful that they actually disturbed my reflections on the dark side of the Force on several occasions. The hatred emanating here fascinated me, so starting at the beginning of this year, I took it upon myself to glide unseen through the forums, cataloging what I discovered. By March, the sheer volume of dark side energy was so great that it threatened to envelop even me!

Let's have a look at a few threads, shall we?

This thread was regarding Aurra Sing in AotC. A rather benign one, actually. Here's the first EU reference, by PadmeBra:
"I think she's too much of an EU character at this point to use her. they'd have to follow all her EU backstory, taking creative control out of Lucas' hands. Besides, I really don't see there being any dark side users who aren't Sith in the films themselves."

Like I said, a benign EU-related post in the PSA forums. AFAIK, it didn't degenerate into a flame war.

Next up is a thread in PSA about lightsaber colors Here is the first EU-related post in that thread, by Bongo_Fett:
"Anyway, I'm thrilled that there is only blue green and purple in AOTC. The idea of rainbow sabers just seems so 'fake' to me. It reeks of EU or fanfilms."

Notice that he equates EU material with fanfilms, which are non-official publications. Also, he said that it "reeks." Still, relatively benign.

To be fair, here's a bit from a thread in the Lit forums:

*the topic was about the possibility of Spaarti clone cylinders in AotC*

Knight1192: "Would be intresting if it does. And it could drive the movie purist nuts to have the EU have such an affect on the PT."

Face Loran, in response: "Yeah, Knight, that'd be worth the price of admission right there. "

Kier_Nimmion: "While I don't want to see Expanded Universe characters in the films, but I quite like the little things that keep cropping up to piss the puriles....er, purists off."

Grand Admiral Wettengel: "Sticking it to the purists make me feel all warm and squishy inside."

Here's a memorable flame war in AotC about Obi-Wan's lightsaber. The first actual mention of EU is by RaptorRage: "It is more likely it is the same TPM sabre. First, there is no visual or published instance even in the EU of a Jedi ever building an exactly identical lightsabre for one that is lost.
(snip)
Third, another EU reference describes Luke's ANH sabre being retrieved intact and in working order from the Bespin shaft, which could be used as a precedent that lightsabres can withstand falls and impacts from great heights."

A respectable EU reference, and one that goes without being flamed. The very model of how to present an EU-derived answer without inciting flames. Now to support the Empress' Exhibit, I present Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek in that selfsame thread:

"The saber he had in TPM is gone. His AOTC one was constructed to look like his old one."

Amazingly, even though this is a typical Bib Fortuna First Post, his presence in fact did NOT incite a flame war! [face_shocked]

Here's the one that did, by Darth_Adaul:
"It wasn't just lying around cause it fell in a M E L T I N G P I T!

Then it proceeded to melt...Geez"

To which Jedi_Morfius responded: "Darth_Adaul .... look chump

did u see it melt? did u see it land, I didnt, therefor i posted my theory, you seem to know (or say u do)

do u work for lucas? ilm? lucas arts? mmm dont think so, so my question to u is where do u get your info, or are u so enlightened you just know all?

 

Passed on from the desk of Empress Palpatine:

The Empress has asked me to let you know that while she would like to respond to your well-researched post, she is unable to at this time ( banned for 24 hours for flaming Bib and vice versa )

While she has amassed an equal roster of Bib, Syntax, and others on the flip side of the coin, she feels that this bickering and finger-pointing, especially involving many users who no longer frequent the JC, is pointless, and detracts from the merits of the ongoing debate.

 

Oh!!! I want to play socks too! Hold on...

 

[image=http://www.animecowboy.com/gallery/Cowboy_Bebop/Edward_Wong_Hau_Pepelu_Tivrusky_4th/ed15.jpg]


Ed thinks both sides can come up with anecdotal evidence to illustrate their grievences. There have been purists who have flamed EUer's and vice versa.

Ed says we should leave that aside and focus on what the boards should be like, and move towards that.

All this bickering makes Ed have headache!

 

"Now you might ask what this particular exchange has to do with the study? It DOESN'T, which is to say, there was a flame war that had NOTHING to do with EU-derived material, but then along comes Ewan-Kenobi, who spouts: "You can shout what the EU says happened until you're blue in the face, but onscreen facts ARE facts." Which had NOTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time. I guess his hatred was so great that he created a problem where to date there wasn't one..."

Okay Merk...I was saying (if you would have posted my whole quote) that the film does indeed show him in the last scenes with Obi-Wan's saber hilt. So even though EU said he'd didn't get it back, the film showed him with it.

And what does this have to do with anything? This was back in Feb for God's sake....

There's a more recent thread where someone asked about Obi-Wan's saber. Bib posted he rebuilt his, I posted that the EU materials say he rebuilt his, but he might have just retrieved it, since we don't know what's at the bottom of that pit.

Why not go with the more current information?

 

People, you have just a little bit of time to turn this thread around. It is not going to become a bitch fest between the two groups.

No more of this He said she said crap. This thread is devoted to looking for solutions, not placing blame. If I see another post full of quotes statements about who started what and who said what, I will close this.

 

It usually starts from the EU poster stating that old "bugaboo" about and we'd better get used to it! Or maybe from some posters' refusal to be open to debate, or discussion, but feel the need to impress their opinions on others, irregardless.

I disagree. THere are as many doing that on both sides.







Hey SPike, you now replying for three people then?

 

The best solution:

To Purists:

STOP BASHING THE EU. If you want to take part in honest criticisms of works you have read, take it to the Lit. forum.


To EU'ers:

STOP FORCING THE EU DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S THROATS. The canonicity of it doesn't matter, some people just don't care for it. If something that is asked in movie forums that needs EU, answer the question, document your source, and leave it at that.


There.