Problems with Literature Forum Authority- Justified Banning or Abuse of Power?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by JediMasterAaron, May 3, 2002.

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  1. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    This thread needs to be created, and since it obviously won't be allowed to remain open in the Lit forum, I'll try here.

    Despite my feelings on it, maybe the "usual channels" will prove able to govern this situation after all.

    Last night, in this thread located here, DL banned Valyn for giving AOTC spoilers in the Literature forum in a thread other than the Official AOTC EU thread. Here is a brief account from that thread on what happened, from Valyn:

    Here?s what happened last night: I posted a thread that asked why Corellian Jedi were allowed to marry when the other Jedi in the PT era weren?t. According to Darth Ludicrous, saying that PT Jedi aren?t allowed to marry is an Attack of the Clones spoiler. I strongly disagree.

    As do I. Asking why Corellian Jedi were allowed to marry, when according to Episode 2 trailers Jedi are forbidden to love is not a spoiler in the LEAST. The title of one of the official Episode 2 trailers is "Forbidden Love". If Jedi are forbidden to love, it is a logical connection that they are forbidden to marry. This is not a spoiler at all, and if this is the reason Valyn was banned, then that is not only wrong, it is an abuse of power.

    In this thread here, Valyn asks why his thread was removed. Ludicrous merely states that it is "because of AOTC spoilers", and then goes on to lock the topic without any sort of further explanation.

    This is absolutely absurd, and, judging by this comment made on behalf of DL:

    Darth Ludicrous: "Instead he reposted a new topic to spite me. you don't spite admins."

    it appears as if he was not banned merely due to spoilers in the Lit forum. Clearly Valyn was not posting a new thread just to spite DL, he was stating a genuine grievance with the governing system of the Lit boards. Frankly, I think he has a legitimate point.

    Something needs to be done about this situation, and I hope that the admins can take the proper steps to solve this. I have nothing personal against Darth Ludicrous, but someone needs to speak out on behalf of Valyn against situations such as these.

    JMA
  2. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Ouch. Unless there's more to this story that would change my mind, I'm with Valyn on this one.

    AYBABTU?

  3. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    I'll be happy to look into this matter with you and DL.

    Please PM me, and we can discuss this matter there.

    Vertical
  4. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    Vertical has been fantastic with this situation. Lets hope some other mods take notice.

    JMA
  5. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    I've never seen Vert get involved in a situation here where he wasn't reasonable and fair. I'm going to one day write a poem about him.

    AYBABTU?

  6. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    In Iambic Pentameter, I should hope?

    :)

    Vertical
  7. IAmTheDarkSide Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 4
    This whole "problem" is ludicrous (no pun intended). Yes, DL is known for being somewhat fickle. Fine. Maybe he did the wrong thing, maybe not. Valyn ended up banned. Valyn PMed some mods about it, which was the right thing to do. Then, Valyn came back and posted a big thread in lit about it, which was the wrong thing to do, breaking several rules. DL let him off the ban this morning -- or would have, if not for the fact that he broke the rules in a big thread calling for the downfall of Darth Ludicrous.

    It's stupid. People are going on and on about "mod corruption" and "the lit forum members having a right to know." Let me remind you, this is a message board, not life. Comparisons to "rebellions against the empire" make me want to laugh. This is not life, it is an internet message board. Complaining in the lit forum is not worth the time it takes to type it up, because it doesn't matter. At all. This is not a democracy. Power of numbers doesn't count one little bit here. And for every little incident like this one (and I'll admit that in DL's case I have observed a few), there's a whole lot of problems and potential problems that have been fixed right up by DL.

    I can understand you not wanting to bring up the problems here, because the threads in this forum tend to get sabotaged and turned into ridiculous travesties. But here is where this kind of thread belongs nevertheless. It's stupid to make a big deal out of these things, because it's not a big deal. It's a 24 hour ban on an internet site that wouldn't even have lasted 24 hours if the banned member hadn't broken the rules again. DL is not some terrible tyrant out to destroy your lives; he's not a power-hungry beast out to consume your souls. He's a human being, and he's prone to mistakes just like the rest of us. He's also a mod, one of the oldest ones here.

    This situation was handled the wrong way right from the start. But even if the problem was started by DL locking something that maybe shouldn't've been locked, it's been compounded by Valyn's own unwillingness to follow the rules her. Discontent and member support DO NOT COUNT here. You have a problem, take it to Communications or take it to PMs. The end.

    For the full story, I point you to these threads:

    Should DL retain his Lit Mod Status?

    You go Valyn
  8. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    "Complaining in the lit forum is not worth the time it takes to type it up, because it doesn't matter."

    Pot, meet Kettle.

    AYBABTU?

  9. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
  10. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    This thread needs to be created, and since it obviously won't be allowed to remain open in the Lit forum, I'll try here.
    Good job of bringing it here, it got too wild over there.



    Last night, in this thread located here, DL banned Valyn for giving AOTC spoilers in the Literature forum in a thread other than the Official AOTC EU thread. Here is a brief account from that thread on what happened, from Valyn:

    Here?s what happened last night: I posted a thread that asked why Corellian Jedi were allowed to marry when the other Jedi in the PT era weren?t. According to Darth Ludicrous, saying that PT Jedi aren?t allowed to marry is an Attack of the Clones spoiler. I strongly disagree.

    As do I. Asking why Corellian Jedi were allowed to marry, when according to Episode 2 trailers Jedi are forbidden to love is not a spoiler in the LEAST. The title of one of the official Episode 2 trailers is "Forbidden Love". If Jedi are forbidden to love, it is a logical connection that they are forbidden to marry. This is not a spoiler at all, and if this is the reason Valyn was banned, then that is not only wrong, it is an abuse of power.

    In this thread here, Valyn asks why his thread was removed. Ludicrous merely states that it is "because of AOTC spoilers", and then goes on to lock the topic without any sort of further explanation.

    This is absolutely absurd, and, judging by this comment made on behalf of DL:

    Darth Ludicrous: "Instead he reposted a new topic to spite me. you don't spite admins."

    it appears as if he was not banned merely due to spoilers in the Lit forum. Clearly Valyn was not posting a new thread just to spite DL, he was stating a genuine grievance with the governing system of the Lit boards. Frankly, I think he has a legitimate point.

    Something needs to be done about this situation, and I hope that the admins can take the proper steps to solve this. I have nothing personal against Darth Ludicrous, but someone needs to speak out on behalf of Valyn against situations such as these.

    JMA


    Sorry JMA, it was only a matter of time till I found this. My two cence(Which really mean nothing overall)...

    DL has made it perfectly clear during Valyn's stay that he was edgy on AOTC spiolers in the forum, and that testing him was wrong. I think this is mearly a misunderstanding, Valyn thought he was right while DL might not have taken proper time to judge.

    However Valyn made a horrible mistake at lashing back, which IMHO is very nieve. If he had a problem, he should of taken it hear. BTW, what was the spite Valyn bit out?
    Anyway, DL banned him, byt he came back, which is strickly forbidden. That is probobly making DL even more mad.

    IMHO, Valyn may have gotten a little "power in his head", thinking he was strickly right and aloud to challange the admins, thus staring a potential rebellion.

    It's just wrong, He should apologize, while DL should let the other side of the story be heard.

    Anyways, my .02, Im sorry that I got all out-of-hand on this in the lit.
  11. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    You have a problem, take it to Communications or take it to PMs. The end.

    I believe that was my point in the lit., but I was bashed for it. No offense JMA ;)
  12. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
  13. Patches Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2002
    star 3
    I have to disagree with Valyn on this one. I'm one of the few people who goes to the Lit. forum and the NSA forum, and, although it didn't spoil me, it could have spoiled someone else, especially considering that there's a thread in the NSA called The spoiler and TRAILER free club!. So, although it probably didn't spoil anyone, it could have. Perhaps DL didn't handle everything perfectly, but he did a good job. Valyn's rant threads were unnecessary and childish. His original banning may not have been justified, but he certainly deserved to be banned after he returned and broke several rules.
  14. Jedi_Astryd Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 1
    I read the original post by Valyn and I thought some posts were getting a little to close to being spoilers. I was not surprised to find out it was deleted. Valyn was told why it was locked, he should have moved discussion to the spoiler thread. DL did what he was supposed to do.
  15. Shahrazad Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    According to the non-spoiler rules posted in the Informational Threads forum,

    6) When the time comes, the posters and trailers will not be considered spoilers.


    As the "No Love" rule is featured in the Forbidden Love trailer, it is not a spoiler, according to official board policy.
  16. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    I think thats really beside the point, DL did what he did, and Im sure Valyn was aware of the rule, which did tread the line.

  17. Patches Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2002
    star 3
    Plus, it's not like he posted a little spoiler and then got banned. Look at DL's message in one of the loced threads, "I warned you before not to post spoilers for AotC. Now you are banned for 24 hours-DL". Apparently, this wasn't the first time Valyn had done something like this. If it was, he would probably have only recieved a warning.
  18. SaberSlinger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, and even if he didn't deserve to get banned (which he did if he was warned previously) he certainly deserves it after posting anti-mod rant with a sock.


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  19. CBaoth_The_Crazy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2002
    star 4
    I admit Darth Ludicrous(SP?) was very unfair in his banning (especially seeing how Gandolf, a mod, doesn't agree with it), but I think Valyn could have at least put a spoiler warning on the thread and none of this would have happened, plus, I think Valyn made a bad move making a whole different post under a sock, and telling that he WAS Valyn, if I were Valyn I would've just said I was a sympathizer for Valyn and thought that DL was unfair, but with what Valyn did I thought he was out of his mind.
  20. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Well cry me a river. He was just asking for it with his posts. *sigh* Some members....ohh well..I didn't post as a sock when I was banned. Wait, yes I did, but that was a long time ago and I learned my lesson. Next Valyn, if you see this, don't make a mountain out of an ant hill.
  21. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    This is why I stay out of Literature now.

    I wind up going, and finding some spoiler, minor as it is.

    I've watched the trailers, and now I learn that PT Jedi aren't allowed to marry? [face_plain]

    ¤Night

  22. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Chissdude: "However Valyn made a horrible mistake at lashing back, which IMHO is very nieve. If he had a problem, he should of taken it hear."

    You're right. I should have come here. Unfortunately, and this is no defense, I realize, I was not aware of such a forum. I believed that since the mentioned incident occured in the Literature forum, it should be dealt with in the said forum.
    Evidently, my assumption was wrong.

    Shahrazad: "According to the non-spoiler rules posted in the Informational Threads forum,


    6) When the time comes, the posters and trailers will not be considered spoilers.


    As the "No Love" rule is featured in the Forbidden Love trailer, it is not a spoiler, according to official board policy."


    Thank you. :)

    Patches: "Plus, it's not like he posted a little spoiler and then got banned. Look at DL's message in one of the loced threads, "I warned you before not to post spoilers for AotC. Now you are banned for 24 hours-DL". Apparently, this wasn't the first time Valyn had done something like this. If it was, he would probably have only recieved a warning."

    Darth Ludicrous was referring to the same post, where he gave only a vague accusation of my thread being guilty of containing spoilers. In the second thread, I asked him where the spoilers were (not fully realizing that he considered "Forbidden Love" to be a spoiler), and he neglected to answer me. [face_plain]

    CBaoth: "I think Valyn made a bad move making a whole different post under a sock, and telling that he WAS Valyn, if I were Valyn I would've just said I was a sympathizer for Valyn and thought that DL was unfair, but with what Valyn did I thought he was out of his mind."

    I assumed that mods could look at IP addresses and realize that I was Valyn anyway. I was posting under the "sock" (I still have no idea why they're called that) because receiving the sympathies of various mods led me to assume that unfair bans shouldn't be accepted.

    If a police officer beats you up for no reason and then gives you an order, are you going to respect that order? The initial endeavors were illegal; therefore, there is no ethical reason to respect the said order, unless one wishes to smile, nod, and pretend that no injustice occurred. :)

    Fire_Ice: I've learned my lesson. But, if the same incident occurs again, will I repeat the whole "sock" fiasco? I don't know. Probably not. The results, believe it or not, were much more positive than I ever imagined.
    As I'm sure you can imagine, I felt that remaining quiet about this would just allow everyone to forget about it happening, and would allow Ludicrous to go on and commit the same unjust endeavors to someone else. I felt that there was a need to advertise.
    Perhaps I did not advertise in the best possible way, but I'm smarter from this experience. Because of that, I do not regret the "sock" fiasco. I've learned something. :)

  23. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "But, if the same incident occurs again, will I repeat the whole "sock" fiasco? I don't know. Probably not."

    You should probably go for "not," otherwise you'll probably be banned for a lot longer than 24 hours.

    Amazing.
  24. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I know. I said "probably" because I'm in the middle of somber contemplation. I haven't reached a conclusion as yet. At this point, all I feel comfortable saying is that I'm very sorry...



  25. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    In the future, if you (or anyone else, for that matter) feels that they have been unjustly banned, it's best to simply notify another mod, and ask that they take it up with the others.

    You can do this by logging in (but not posting) as a sock, and PM'ing another mod, or by emailing all of the admins at jc-admins@theforce.net.

    Vertical
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