Problems with Literature Forum Authority- Justified Banning or Abuse of Power?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by JediMasterAaron, May 3, 2002.

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  1. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Vertical: Again, thank you for your help...and I will act differently if there's a next time.

  2. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    IATDS-

    It's stupid. People are going on and on about "mod corruption" and "the lit forum members having a right to know." Let me remind you, this is a message board, not life. Comparisons to "rebellions against the empire" make me want to laugh. This is not life, it is an internet message board. Complaining in the lit forum is not worth the time it takes to type it up, because it doesn't matter. At all. This is not a democracy. Power of numbers doesn't count one little bit here. And for every little incident like this one (and I'll admit that in DL's case I have observed a few), there's a whole lot of problems and potential problems that have been fixed right up by DL.

    *rolls eyes*

    Any comparisons made to "rebelling against the Empire" are obviously made with sarcasm in mind. Do you honestly think I can't distinguish between and internet message board and real life? And that this board is a dictatorship of sorts, not a republic or democracy? I do have a brain after all....

    What the mods job is is promoting a clean, pleasant environment in which fellow SW fans can gather and discuss. Fine. Great. DL was not doing that in this instance, and other mods, i.e. Gandolf the Grey, have problems with it too. It is NOT up to a mod to abuse his power and ban people for something that is not outside the guidelines in any way shape or form. If you want the right environment to post in, then the right mods, with the right attitudes, need to be present. Maybe if DL is so fickle, he shouldn't be a mod. Nothing against him personally, but to me it seems that a quality that a mod should possess is a very thick skin, and that is something that it seems he is lacking.

    DL is not some terrible tyrant out to destroy your lives; he's not a power-hungry beast out to consume your souls. He's a human being, and he's prone to mistakes just like the rest of us. He's also a mod, one of the oldest ones here.

    *rolls eyes*

    Whoever said that he was? Your overdramatization here does nothing other than attempt to undermine the point that I was making. Well done. I realize DL is one of the oldest mods here. That doesn't mean he can't clean up his act, or improve his attitude. You're right, he's human. Which means he can constantly improve.

    This situation was handled the wrong way right from the start. But even if the problem was started by DL locking something that maybe shouldn't've been locked, it's been compounded by Valyn's own unwillingness to follow the rules her. Discontent and member support DO NOT COUNT here. You have a problem, take it to Communications or take it to PMs. The end.

    I'm not inclined to disagree with you, at least not completely on your point here. Maybe Valyn PMing many a mod would have gotten things done in the correct fashion. Maybe not. But I can understand his anger at being unjustly banned on nothing more than a whim from a "fickle" moderator.

    For the full story, I point you to these threads:

    Except it's not the full story, since it doesn't include the threads which Valyn was actually banned for.

    JMA
  3. grendelsfork Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    hmm, this could be the last thread dedicated to a spoiler problem.
  4. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    What does DL have to say about all this?
  5. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    For once, I'm in agreement with Bib. :eek:


    And technically speaking, I think there's an official AOTC discussion thread in Lit, so Valyn really should have posted the PT Jedi thing there if anywhere.
  6. Dark_Avenger Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    Son of a Donkey's uncle...I didn't mean to post under this name. I only logged in with this name to see if DL sent me a private message. Argh.

    Be right back. I'll redo my post under Valyn. :)

  7. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Bib: I don't know. I've sent him a private message, but I'm still waiting for the reply.

    Antilles: "And technically speaking, I think there's an official AOTC discussion thread in Lit, so Valyn really should have posted the PT Jedi thing there if anywhere."

    I wasn't discussing AotC. I was discussing Corellian Jedi vs other Jedi pertaining to the prequel era Jedi Code. Moreover, many other threads contain spoilers. As pointed out earlier, for some unknown reason, I was singled out. Furthermore, my thread didn't even contain spoilers. [face_plain]

    Here's what a fellow Lit patron (I'm not going to give the actual name, though...don't have consent) said to me: "I've had problems with DL as well! I've never had a topic locked before, until him, and I too think it was unjustly! I asked some questions that I wasn't sure of, and that I hadn't seen in the forum. So I started a thread, but before anyone else could answer the question, he banns it. Says that it has already been done. Well I didn't see it! And when I went looking for it, my questions STILL weren't answered! So yeah, I think the forum needs to look into DL."


    Now, consider that along with JediMasterAaron's words, "Maybe if DL is so fickle, he shouldn't be a mod. Nothing against him personally, but to me it seems that a quality that a mod should possess is a very thick skin, and that is something that it seems he is lacking."

    I'm not trying to initiate a "Down with Darth Ludicrous" campaign. I'm strongly suggesting that those behind the administration of this site, if a pleasant, fair environment is truly what is sought here, should further investigate not only my case (which has been investigated so much already), but others.
    How many others have had conflicts with DL but didn't attempt to advertise it? Including the mentioned patron, this makes two others that I know of. Including me, that's three patrons that felt that Darth Ludicrous acted unjustly towards them.
    How many more are there?

    I agree with JMA. If he is so "fickle", then maybe he shouldn't be moderating patrons. Again, I'm not preaching "Down with DL", I'm suggesting that his actions and philosophies be brought into question.

  8. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Three say that. How many say that what you said WAS spoilers though? Others aren't dealt with because they're not seen, or other mods have diffrent standards. Just because they're missed, doesn't mean they're right.



    Sorry, but I dont like ANY spoilers AT ALL since Tiershon_Fett's (Or something like that) SIG spoilt EP2 for me.








    Again, I'm not preaching "Down with DL", I'm suggesting that his actions and philosophies be brought into question.

    Which sounds about the same.
  9. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Reaperfett: As mentioned by forum policy (someone posted it earlier), what I posted was not a spoiler. Darth Ludicrous considered it a spoiler by himself, not relating to the guidelines specified in forum policy.
    "Forbidden Love" is not a spoiler. If I had said, "Kenobi loses his hand" (jest), then that would have been a spoiler, unless advertised in the commercials/posters. [face_plain]

    Edit:

    "'Again, I'm not preaching "Down with DL", I'm suggesting that his actions and philosophies be brought into question.'

    Which sounds about the same."


    If it sounds the same to you, then you haven't considered all that I've said. We question politicians all the time, but just because we criticize does not mean that we want to destroy. [face_plain]

    Edit:

    I'm suggesting that he be questioned so that the same mistakes will not repeat themselves, so that he can improve. He's human. He's capable of learning and improving.

  10. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    I've opened discussion with DL on the matter so that this won't happen again. He considers "anything to do with AOTC" a spoiler. Technically, that's not how the rest of the forums operate (nor was Valyn's original thread specifically dealing with AOTC).

    I feel that if that is how he's going to be enforcing rules in that forum, that it needs to be absolutely clear to those who visit that forum. Clearly, it wasn't clear in this case.

    Vertical
  11. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Vertical: "I feel that if that is how he's going to be enforcing rules in that forum, that it needs to be absolutely clear to those who visit that forum. Clearly, it wasn't clear in this case."

    So, moderators of different forums are allowed to make up their own policies, policies that favor them and contradict the policies of the forum collective? :confused:

  12. Ben Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2000
    star 5
    I can't imagine what's keeping I_D...
  13. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I_D...? :confused: Who's that?

  14. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    What you said wasn't a spoiler. However the Corellian Jedi thing was a spoiler. And yes, mods are allowed to use their own discretion from time to time. I've seen it on many occasions.
  15. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
  16. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    Mods are allowed to develop forum-specific rules, yes. We have some mods that are very specific to certain forums...

    DL for Lit, farraday for JCC, Padme Bra for PSA, etc.

    Those mods, if they see fit, can set up forum-specific policy if necessary. They were chosen to moderate those forums because they know the environment.

    So, while the base rules exist for all forums, yes, mods do have some discretion.

    Vertical
  17. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Gandolf: Oh... :D

    Fire: "However the Corellian Jedi thing was a spoiler."

    Wait...why was the Corellian Jedi thing a spoiler? My very first post on these forums dealt with this issue and it wasn't locked, nor did I recieve any warnings. The Corellian Jedi issue was raised from I, Jedi, which was written before Attack of the Clones was even a concept. :confused:

  18. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    F_I_D:

    The Corellian Jedi "thing" was in no way a spoiler.

    Vertical:

    If he considers everything AotC a spoiler, that's one thing. But he needs to back up this belief by locking or deleting every single thread that even mentions AOTC in it, rather than singling out Valyn in what appeared to be some sort of personal vendetta. If he were to delete everything, problem solved.


    On a side note, the argument "This isn't a democracy" really is wearing rather thin. Simply because the general poster has no real power in a system such as this, does not mean that we are supposed to just blindly follow along whenever a mod oversteps his boundaries.

    JMA
  19. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    My mistake then. :D We all make 'em.
  20. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    But he needs to back up this belief by locking or deleting every single thread that even mentions AOTC in it, rather than singling out Valyn in what appeared to be some sort of personal vendetta

    You mean like he said he was doing, and then proceeded to do?

    He closes threads. He locks threads. Stop acting like this is some isolated case.
  21. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Further more, if you're not trying to oust DL, Why make this?




    Also, when you pasted from the e-mails and PMs, you asked for their permission to show them, yes?

    Now, in that thread, the first post is gone. However, the second of yours says Papercut: You mean the quote from the Guide? No, no. You don't need to type that again, I'm sure.. Does this mean you quoted from a guide referring to EP2? That is a spoiler.
  22. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    On a side note, the argument "This isn't a democracy" really is wearing rather thin. Simply because the general poster has no real power in a system such as this, does not mean that we are supposed to just blindly follow along whenever a mod oversteps his boundaries.

    He never overstepped his boundaries. And the mods don't expect members to stand by and do nothing. But there's a such thing as an appropriate action and an inappropriate one. What Valyn did was by far the inappropriate one.
  23. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    You mean like he said he was doing, and then proceeded to do?

    He closes threads. He locks threads. Stop acting like this is some isolated case.


    Go to the Lit forum right now RF, and just check how many threads have AOTC mentioned in them. DL doesn't even come CLOSE to deleting every single thread that has AOTC in it.

    Who's acting like this is an isolated case? This is just the most public example of it.

    Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

    JMA
  24. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    What Valyn did was by far the inappropriate one.


    I'm not denying the situation could have been handled in a more political fashion by Valyn. All I'm saying is, instances like this by the mods shouldn't go unpunished.

    JMA
  25. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    DL hasn't gone unpunished. You made a thread about him complaining of his methods, isn't that punishment enough? :p Having your judgment and your ability to administrate questioned?
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