Problems with Literature Forum Authority- Justified Banning or Abuse of Power?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by JediMasterAaron, May 3, 2002.

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  1. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Go to the Lit forum right now RF, and just check how many threads have AOTC mentioned in them. DL doesn't even come CLOSE to deleting every single thread that has AOTC in it.


    Notice DL is around though. In fact, no, lets argue everything like this. Crime is rising! WHERE IS GEORGE WASHINGTON! HE is to blame!

    :)
  2. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Reaperfett: "He closes threads. He locks threads. Stop acting like this is some isolated case."

    Then why wasn't the Was Mara right to correct Anakin thread locked? There are a lot of others, too, I'm sure.

    "Further more, if you're not trying to oust DL, Why make this?"

    That was done obviously before I turned to more appropriate means of solving the problem, when I was still frustrated with the situation. If you read my post, then you will also see that I included selections including, "DL should remain a mod, but should clean up his act" or something to that effect.

    My vote on that thread was to have him removed. Quite a lot has happened since then. My opinion has changed.

    I said that I am not trying to get rid of DL, not that I was not. I was speaking in the present tense, not the past tense.

    "Does this mean you quoted from a guide referring to EP2? That is a spoiler."

    Papercut posted a brief excerpt from the New Essential Guide to Characters, involving Corellian Jedi. Nothing about AotC was mentioned.

    JMA: "I'm not denying the situation could have been handled in a more political fashion by Valyn. All I'm saying is, instances like this by the mods shouldn't go unpunished."

    What I did was inappropriate and I realize that now. I'm acting in a more political fashion now. I understand what I did was wrong. Believe me, I know.

  3. IAmTheDarkSide Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 4
    Clearly, it wasn't clear in this case.

    [face_laugh]

    Really, there shouldn't be different rules. If the overall rules are that it's not a spoiler if it's in the previews or whatnot, then someone shouldn't be penalized for discussing what's in the previews. If someone's going to be so ridiculously spoiler free they're not oging to look at posters or watch commercials, then they really shouldn't be on a Star Wars message board so shortly before the release of the movie.
  4. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    Notice DL is around though. In fact, no, lets argue everything like this. Crime is rising! WHERE IS GEORGE WASHINGTON! HE is to blame!

    ?[face_plain]

    Not going to pretend that I understood this reference. I'm as confused as confused can be...

    JMA

    F_I_D:

    You made a thread about him complaining of his methods, isn't that punishment enough? Having your judgment and your ability to administrate questioned?

    Not if, as most people contend, these boards are a dictatorship. What does one person's questioning of the judgement matter?

    JMA
  5. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Not going to pretend that I understood this reference. I'm as confused as confused can be...

    You're saying DL hasn't dealt with the ones at the top. DL isnt here. So you blame him while away. My point then went on to blame someone who isnt round :)
  6. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    You're saying DL hasn't dealt with the ones at the top. DL isnt here. So you blame him while away. My point then went on to blame someone who isnt round

    Ahhhh, gotcha.

    ?[face_plain]

    How am I supposed to keep track of when DL is around or not? I posted this in a public forum, and used what is deemed the "correct" forms of communicating a grievance. He can read this just as easily as any other mod...

    JMA
  7. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    JMA: Fett's post confused me probably more than it did you, which is why I neglected to respond to that particular portion. [face_plain]

    IATDS: "Really, there shouldn't be different rules. If the overall rules are that it's not a spoiler if it's in the previews or whatnot, then someone shouldn't be penalized for discussing what's in the previews. If someone's going to be so ridiculously spoiler free they're not oging to look at posters or watch commercials, then they really shouldn't be on a Star Wars message board so shortly before the release of the movie."


    I completely concur. :)

  8. MrEmh Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 2
    "So, moderators of different forums are allowed to make up their own policies, policies that favor them and contradict the policies of the forum collective?"


    In the Senate, I and Kessel Runner make different punishment policies that are far more severe than anywhere else. Sometimes, there are even thread specific policies. If DL wants to slap a user for posting what he considers spoilers outside the spoilers thread, he has every right to. Even if the user who posted doesn't think the post is a spoiler, it is for the Administration to decide - to shelter those who choose to be spoiler-free - what is a spoiler and what is not.

    Mind you, there is a limit of how long something is considered a spoiler. Until the release of AotC (I'd wager a few days, a week later) everything save what is on the official site (and even for the die-hard spoiler frees some of that is off limits) is considered a spoiler.
  9. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    "If DL wants to slap a user for posting what he considers spoilers outside the spoilers thread, he has every right to. Even if the user who posted doesn't think the post is a spoiler, it is for the Administration to decide - to shelter those who choose to be spoiler-free - what is a spoiler and what is not."

    In one of the threads that Darth Ludicrous closed, I asked him what he considered to be a spoiler. People like Bib Fortuna also said that they saw no spoilers in the thread. Rather than answering me, Ludicrous closed my ensuing thread (which was posted because I wanted to discuss the Corellian Jedi, not AotC) and banned me.
    He did not advertise his policies regarding spoilers.

    Why do you think police officers are required to state the Miranda Rights upon arrest? So that the arrested party are informed and that abusive actions will not go unpunished.

  10. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Valyn, Bib is the person who thinks any spoilers shouldnt be after 2 weeks of US release, forgetting the rest of the world might not even get it until then. Dont use him as an example :)
  11. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    "He did not advertise his policies regarding spoilers."

    Val, he made a specific thread a few weeks ago that very clearly stated he was going to delete anything in the Lit. Forum related to AotC. With the return of Kadue and the addition of two new mods, it was apparently decided amongst the lit. mods that one thread would be allowed for AotC as it relates to the EU. This isn't a new policy.
  12. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Reaperfett: Regardless of Bib's perspective on spoilers, fact remains that I did not post a spoiler. "Forbidden Love" is displayed constantly in Episode Two's advertising campaign. The initial ban was ludicrous and I certainly hope that a similar incident does not occur again.

    Darth Ludicrous did not advertise his policies on spoilers. When police officers apprehend an individual, they are required to state that individual's Miranda Rights, informing that person about the policies. Ludicrous failed to do so. I even asked him in one of the locked threads what he considered to be a spoiler. He did not answer. Instead, he banned me for starting a new thread. I wanted to discuss Corellian Jedi, not AotC. [face_plain]

    Edit:

    Face: Okay, I was unaware of that. But I still asked him about it. He didn't answer. Moreover, my post did NOT contain SPOILERS. I am getting so sick of repeating that sentence.

  13. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    The initial ban was ludicrous

    Boom boom! :)
  14. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
  15. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    You know, like a rimshot. On drums. Often follow jokes. You get the idea...
  16. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I should have put a No pun intended disclaimer. [face_plain]

    I just happen to like the word "Ludicrous". :p

  17. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    "I even asked him in one of the locked threads what he considered to be a spoiler. He did not answer."

    Next time, I suggest using a PM. The odds of an admin going back into a thread he's just locked to see if you've edited a question into it are very slim. Creating a new thread for the purpose isn't the best way to do it, as you've learned, because the mod can easily misinterpret it and it's inappropriate for the Lit. Forum. Just use a PM, it's private, it's prompt, and you can tell if/when it's been read. You'll know if the mod just missed your question or purposefully ignored you.
  18. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Face: "Just use a PM, it's private, it's prompt, and you can tell if/when it's been read."

    Just out of curiosity, has Darth Ludicrous logged on in since yesterday? If he has, then I'm not so sure about PMs being prompt. I mean, he still hasn't replied to the PM I sent him... [face_plain]

  19. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Yeah, ludicrous is a cool word. Anyhoo...


    Ive got to take Valyn's side on this one, folks. Without getting into specifcs, he should not have been banned when what he was posting was NOT spoiler material in the slightest. As IAMTDS said, maybe one should reconsider whether he or she should be a mod when they consider everything about AotC to be a spoiler.


    Just a thought...
  20. Face Loran Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    "I mean, he still hasn't replied to the PM I sent him..."

    Valyn, I mean prompt as in they get to their intended recipient instantaneously.

    Check and see if it's been read. Click on "Private Messages" up top along the toolbar, then "Sent Messages." Alongside your PM to DL will be the time and date sent and the time and date read, if it has been read. This will show you if he's read your PM. Don't immediately assume he's ignoring you if he has, he could just be formulating a response, too.
  21. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Face: It says the message was read 5/3 8:14pm. [face_plain]

  22. Kadue Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    Okay, we seem to be going around in circles here.

    But for those people that are complaining about threads not being locked when they should be, why haven't you PMed one of us to take care of them? We can't see everything, and sometimes we will miss a thread or post. I personally do not care if I receive multiple PM's about a thread that needs to be closed, but please don't start taking pot shots at us about not doing anything if you are unprepared to also. Multiple times in threads dealing with Lit forum proceedures I have stated the above, to which you all have read since most of you have posted in them.

    Valyn - DL might have made an error. But from what I can gather, your ban would have been less than a day, and was in fact, not more than a day, even after you broke a second rule. You said that you contacted Gandalf about this. Good, but you should have left it there for him to make inquires about. If you didn't think anything was being done, myself and/or one of the administrators are only a PM away.

    We all make mistakes, mods and users alike, so why does one case of mistakes on both sides have to be blown so far out of proportion?
  23. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    "We all make mistakes, mods and users alike, so why does one case of mistakes on both sides have to be blown so far out of proportion?"

    Because, I've acknowledged that I have made a mistake, but I'm wondering if Darth Ludicrous has. If he believes that he is still in the right, then no progress has been established at all, and this situation is more likely to repeat itself. If both parties admit that they made mistakes, then progress has been made and there is less of a chance that the same mistake will repeat itself.

    I have admitted my mistakes on this matter. But the second party, from what I've heard, still believes himself to be right. :(

    Edit:

    This isn't about me wanting to be proven right and wanting him to be proven wrong. It's about establishing progress and to improve the quality of moderation, if such an issue needs to be questioned. It's about me, and JMA, evidently, wanting to be reassured that the same incident will not repeat itself.

    Edit:

    Just got a PM from Darth Ludicrous. He said everything's cool. I guess progress was made. :D

  24. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    this topic was posted in inquiry after I delete the one containung the AotC spoilers. In it, I explained the topic was deleted for containing spoilers. By Valyn's reply you could tell he knew what I was referring to. I then locked this topic because the message should have been clear that I consider all strong plot points to be spoilers, this included.

    Valyn then went and reposted the topic here after I had already warned him and told him it was spoilers. Reposting a topic I had already closed and had explained for closing goes against my direct authority. Spoilers are not cool. I promptly edited the spoilers out, locked the topic and banned Valyn, as any admin would do when someone breaks forum rules after a warning. Did he really think I would leave it open the second time he posted it? Right.....
    I was prepared to unban Valyn early, but then I found the other BS and extended the banning another 24 hours. Lucky for Valyn, some other admin came along and usurped my judgement and unbanned him.

    Here's the moral of the story, folks: If an admin tells you not to do something that it is against forum rules, don't test their patience by turning around and doing it. You will get banned and you will deserve to be banned. End of story.
    I'm through dealing with this subject, everything is settled and in a month or two when AotC is finally worldwide, we finally won't have to worry about spoiling non-spoiler forums like literature.
  25. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    But how could it be considered spoilers if it was featured in one of the trailers?
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