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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

"PROFESSIONAL FANFILMS" - A Debate Revisited

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by JediTAC, Aug 1, 2002.

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  1. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Okay, this thread IS NOT meant to ensue any heated arguements and/or debates with one another. I am doing some research for an article I am writing, and I wanted to get the TFN Community's candid comments and opinions with regard to this issue of "Professional FanFilms."

    In other words . . . . . . .
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?




    Again, PLEASE do not turn this into an argumentative thing. No opinion is necessarily wrong.
    Simply explain your position as thoroughly and constructively as you can. :D
     
  2. Pat-bk-Fitzsimons

    Pat-bk-Fitzsimons Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    there is no such thing as a professional fan film, professional means to get paid for in creating of said film.

    there is only diffrences in degress of skill, knowledge and resoures.

    and as long as people enjoy making and watching them thats how it should be.

    trying to make leagues as it were would take away from the experince and casue divison amongst the community.

    pat

     
  3. mpfjr

    mpfjr Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2001
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    Yes. I feel that people who have a job or career in the field have an advantage over the burger flipper fan-film makers.

    The difference is in the quality of the special effects more than anything. Those who have had training or an education in various aspects of movie making produce a generally higher quality film than those who do not.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Yes, but I don't see how this could be done.
    I guess maybe their should be a categories like.. Professional - Amature - Layman
    But I don't really see this happening.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    A bad thing. It sets the bar too high and will most likely intimidate people. This is counter productive in my opinion. How many people have come to this board with a dream of making a film, they download a few of the nearly professional level movies and then ran for the door?

    There are exceptions to every rule, but generally I agree with my own opinions on this matter.
    -Mike
     
  4. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    No such thing as a professional fanfilm. The only difference is time and money. Nobody is getting paid to make these movies, it's all for fun and they all rip off Star Wars.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    No. In fact there is already a kind of arrogance amongst certain people on this board. They act like they are big shot hollywood producers. I just want to tell them to wake up to reality. These are fanfilms!

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    I think they are good for the most part. They up the overall quality of all the fanfilms and bring a sense of competition. The downside is that a much better fanfilm with poor FX can easily be ignored.
     
  5. borjis fett

    borjis fett Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 1999

    what foxbatkiller said, but adding "Skills" to the time and money on number one.

     
  6. CarlCampbell

    CarlCampbell Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    Although I do admit that I have used the term myself, I merely wish to define those films that have been most popular, and have an overall outstanding rating.

    There is no such thing, anyhow, as it would contradict even the gramatical meaning. How can an AMATEUR film be a PROFESSIONAL film?

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    I think things are great as they are. Mostly, if the film is a major projects, it tends to have a great and regularly visited website and is promoted more just because its a great film. The news travels orally, on most ocasions. I don't think films should be put into subcategories though otherwise people would feel like this is not so much of a fan's activity anymore and is getting a bit to regal.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    I don't think they're bad at all. I know some ppl, including myself, have stared at film like BA, EOTF, Duality, etc... and doubted to even start writing a script in fear that we'd never measure up to this great pictures. They are NOT bad in any way because by no means do they intend to cause this effect. I believe they should serve as a clear example of what a lot of effort and team work can achieve.

    Carl
     
  7. Pixelito

    Pixelito Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    i think the only "Professional" fanfilm would be something like Spaceballs.
     
  8. Macho

    Macho Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2001
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    After seeing and hearing about Tydirium yes, i think there is a difference, in where people have hired people to work on films and actually create props and high quality coustumes and props.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Nope i dont think there should be a seperation.

     
  9. christmastom

    christmastom Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    No. Something that is professional would be done by people who do it for a living. These are fanfilms! You can't even make money on it! I don't think that any fanfilm could be professional.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Absolutely not. These things are meant as a tribute to Star Wars, and they all accomplish that same goal. That is not to say all fanfilms are equal, but there should not be any distinction.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    I think so. When people are making their films better, it raises the bar for the other film-makers. The more people push themselves, the more recognition the fanfilm community gets.
     
  10. tumblemoster

    tumblemoster Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2000
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    A professional fanfilm, no. A professionally made fan film, yes. Seeds of Darkness, Knightquest, even Dark redemption all had a professional shine and quality to their production. The difference between an ameture and professionally made fan film really amounts to knowledge and experience, and to a small degree, resources.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    No. At the end of the day a Fanfilm represents the vision and effort of one or a few people. It shouldn't matter whether it was made by one guy in his backyard or a crew of 50. Whether or not the makers choose to promote their films is their business. There is sometimes complaint on this board to the effect of "If I had money for all that software I could do that too" but that sentiment is bull. There are, unfortunately, different levels of talent and ability out there. Those with greater talent, ability and resources shouldn't be elevated or penalized simply because they do better work than everyone else. You simply have to admit that there are people better than you, and except your own limitations.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    Absolutely a good thing. The better a film looks and plays, the better the story, the more people are going to strive to do even better. And eventually, at least some of them will move beyond the fan film to make amazing work of their own.

    -tm
     
  11. Golden-Y

    Golden-Y Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2000
    Tumble, your one of my heros.

    :D
     
  12. RocketGirl

    RocketGirl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    If you're paying people for things like acting or original music, or, heck, anything other than renting equipment and studio time, I'd say it's a professional fan film, no matter how much it may suck.
    If you're anything other than a bunch of friends doing something cool (a la "The Formula"), you've gone pro, IMHO.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Short of putting them on a rating system on wherever they're being hosted...naw.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    Both. Good, because it raises the bar. Bad for, well, pretty much the same reason. It's getting to the point where you can't just make a fun movie that is technically so-so but still lots of fun and have people genuinely enjoy it...people expect more these days. Is that fair? No, not really. But...it is nice to see a fan film that doesn't look like it was shot by spastic six-year-olds, acted by drunken gorillas, and has FX done by stop-motion construction-paper artists, isn't it?
    It cuts both ways, IMHO...
     
  13. The-Matt-Man

    The-Matt-Man Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Professional Fan Films... FoxBatKillers Hollywood producer comment...

    I think a fan film can be done by professionals in a professional way, but as far as being professional. Unless it is dubbed canon by the original creator or sent to movie theaters across the world to make money, I don't believe that it is professional.

    If you went about something in a professional way, you'd have the paid producers, directors, actors, effects artists, etc. and an extremely high budget. It costs millions of dollars to create a movie with unknown actors and ameature directors, etc. that take place on earth if you're really trying to go about it professionally.

    However, I believe you can use your fan filmer skills to gain a job as a professional. I personally am constantly adding to a portfolio that demonstrates my skill in drawing, sculpting, sound editing, video editing, writing, special effects, digital effects, basic effects, etc. ( I have alot of free time, and many hobbies :) )

    While doing this, most of the work I do is original. The reason for this is because I'm a jerk and I much prefer my ideas over other peoples ideas (I try to keep an open mind.....try....), but even so, I do try to add in work that is not created from my own original idea. When you go into an employers office, you have to show them that you can not only have great ideas of your own, but that you can take somebodies pre-fab idea and make it into what you think is better. If you're going to make a fan film, make sure you're basing it off of an idea you feel would better the original idea if it were an actual part of it, otherwise you're creating a weak extension (if you add a weak extension to a bungee cord, you are now in the hands of the snap factor). If you're looking for rotoscoping practice, or writing practice, it IS okay to use the idea of another as long as you don't limit yourself to that idea.

    That said. I have ideas coming out of the wazoo, the reason i'm using these ideas is to impress my employer, and my ultimate goal is to work for Marvel Comics, write an Iron Man mini series, move on to DC Comics, bring Green Lantern back from the grave of crappy writing it's going to, and then go indy with an idea I've been working on for about five years that I think would make a cool comic book. To better yourself, you have to do your work with the thought in mind that you could do a better job now, or maybe sometime in the future.

    As for the hollywood producer comment, if you're trying to comment on people who act high and mighty, you need to realize, that sort of thing is pretty bold in itself. I know I sometimes sound like I'm acting like that, but that's because that's the way I am. I don't do that on purpose, it's just how I talk...except with less lingo. Also take to mind that the producer handles the providing for the movie part more than anything and it is most likely the digital effects artists, or critics you're talking about. Please don't make me give the talk on what each person does in the film industry. I've already done two reports on it in the past five years, it gets annoying.

    Anyway... hope nobody is offended, I try not to do that...

    -Matt
     
  14. PadawanNick

    PadawanNick Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2001
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    Yes.


    They're called "Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones". (I mean hey, who can be a bigger fan than the guy that created the thing and makes $$$$$$$ from it.)

    Difference?: Profit

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Yup. Already done. That shinny, sparkely thingy that actually says LUCASFILM at the beginning.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?


    Well that last one was sure a boost to the community!!! Just look at all those '02s!

    ;)



    Have fun!!



    Seriously, I think it's really cool that people with access to top notch resources and talent are putting effort into these kinds of projects.

    It's great productions like Duality, Knights Quest, and Tyderium that really catch the eye of the general public and entice them into the hobby. As more an more people wander in here, the pool of ideas and knowledge expands.

    There are serveral posters here now, with '02 under their name, that have tons of pro level experience and I've learned a great deal from them already.

    What a great place.

    Have fun!!
     
  15. Night4554

    Night4554 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2000
    without reading posts otherwise...

    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    Yes, the difference is that "Professional FanFilms" make use of things the average consumer is without: A High quality camcorder, professional grade software (Max & Lightwave included), a team of trained assistants, appropriate locations & equipment(bluescreen warehouse, dollies, etc) and a large budget.
    Now it's the use of all or most of these that distinguish. "Average-Guy FanFilms" may use a high quality camcorder, or have the expensive software. If they do, that's great for them, but the use of most or all of the aforementioned is what sets things apart.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    I think that there needs to be some type of commitee composed of the TFN Theature staff, fans, and fellow directors to determine if a film is "Professional", and if so, a note should be attached to the film page saying something to the degree of "this was made using great equipment etc etc i no way does this determine the upper or lower bar of quality tolerable in a fanfilm. it has been given the title of 'professional' because [reasons]."
    By encouraging this distiction, it gives film makers the ability to judge themselves with people more in their weight class.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    They are neither. To disallow or discourage "Professional" fanfilms would be presumptuous in the extreme, and a barbaric act. In no way should we discourage people because they are set somewhat higher in the "Film Making Ladder" than others.
    On the other hand, to show favortism towards "Professional" Films over "Average-Guy" Films is a terrible thing indeed, and will lead to the genre becoming stagnant. A good barrier is to allot equal amounts of space to each section, while using the comitte discussed earlier to seperate them.

    Please excuse all spelling mistakes ;)

    ¤Night
     
  16. yodafett999

    yodafett999 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2000
    I think a fan film can be done by professionals in a professional way, but as far as being professional. Unless it is dubbed canon by the original creator or sent to movie theaters across the world to make money, I don't believe that it is professional.

    If you went about something in a professional way, you'd have the paid producers, directors, actors, effects artists, etc. and an extremely high budget. It costs millions of dollars to create a movie with unknown actors and ameature directors, etc. that take place on earth if you're really trying to go about it professionally.



    You're getting into a very limited view of what "professional filmmaking" is. There is a vast difference between fanfilms and regular films, no matter what the production value. Movies like "El Mariachi" and "Clerks" were amateur films (in that they were the first films of directors that were not yet tested in the feature film arena) but they both went international and made quite a bit of money in relation to their respective budgets. I don't know that I would call both of them professional films but are they still amateur films once they reach that kind of audience? Your definition up there is basically a studio film. There are many, many films every year made for less than a million dollars that do make money and receive international distribution.

    It's a tough thing to define because there are quite a few studio films every year that not only don't make money but actually end up losing it. Yet they are still professional.

    How do you define when someone breaks out of the "amateur" status? If someone spends $20K on their first film and it becomes a smash hit then have they reached the professional ranking? What if they stick to their roots and make their next film for still less than a million dollars, is it still an amateur project because it wasn't as large as it could be? Do you limit it to them making a studio film before they are truly considered a professional filmmaker? I still find that limiting.

    I do agree that they can be professionally made (in that they use quality props and costumes, paid actors and actresses, paid fx crews, professional quality equipment and sets) but that it doesn't necessarily make it a professional film. Let's take it further.......if David Fincher or Steven Spielberg were to make a fanfilm (no profit whatsoever, obviously), with their full crews and A-list stars, and they were to do it with money out of their own pocket......would it then be professional? If yes, is it only professional because of who makes it, finances it, or stars in it?

    I don't think there needs to be a designation or classification for any of them because I see no real reason for it. It's not going to draw any more attention to a really good film that they film shouldn't draw to itself through a quality finished product. If you were to add a classification for this then you would need to add one for any film shot on real film, as opposed to digital, because it's also fairly rare and special to some.

    I don't think the larger productions hurt anything but I sometimes get the impression that people are looking at the resources used instead of the people using them. A $40K fan film with great effects and pedestrian directing that has a boring and uninvolving script will be blown off the screen by a deeply engrossing, character building film shot on Hi8 in someone's backyard with his brother and sister as stars that really tries some innovative camera angles. Well, at least to me it would.

    So, yeah, I have too much to say. :)
     
  17. LordFrisian

    LordFrisian Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    > 1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?"
    > If so, what is the difference between these so called
    > "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?
    I agree to tumblemonster: Not professional, but professionally made.

    > 2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production
    > valuesof FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?
    There is already a de-facto-standard for the rating of fanfilms: Is the thing hosted by TF.N or not?
    Maybe this isn't intended, but I think it is how the public sees the community. (Though some real good stuff is *not* hosted by TF.N, of course.)

    You are probably thinking of a more detailed distinction. Personally, I wouldn't go any further: The distinction might help people who are "new in the audience". But there is no such thing as an objective rating, and you can never really rely on what a critic says. When I started watching fanfilms, I found an overwhelming variety on the web, and I was glad that TF.N lighted my way. But if I hadn't researched myself, there would be great films that I'd never have seen.
    Of course, a more detailed rating wouldn't have prevented me from doing research. Hmm ... Maybe I'm just indifferent about critics.

    > 3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion,
    > a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?
    I *love* them. -> They are a good thing for *me*.
    Well, how do you define "community"? Is it only the fanfilm *makers* or also the audience?

    EDIT: Typos deleted.
     
  18. TheRealFennShysa

    TheRealFennShysa TFN FanFilms Staff star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2000
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?
    I think I'd have to say that, yes, there is a class of professional fanfilm... that would be the ones where you have a paid crew, paid actors, paid musicians... everything you'd see on screen had been paid for in some way, not donated, comped, lent, borrowed or otherwise cajoled out of someone.... I'd point to something like "Hands of the Sith" or "George Lucas in Love" (I could be wrong, but I think Nussbaum and Levy paid everyone on that)...

    As for films made *by* professionals, this is where things can get a little weird... to use "Darth Vader's Psychic Hotline" as an example, you've got professionals in the television and film industry (as well as some fans) banding together to produce fanfilms, using high-end cameras, edit systems, animation, and professional talent... but the actors and crew aren't paid (with the exception of the composers), because everyone wants in on what they see as a funny idea, and want to see it done so bad they do it gratis... the equipment costs are almost nil because we have access to most of it in our jobs... you could call this professional, as it's basically the same as above, just with no (or little) money being spent... I'd also put "Essence of the Force" in with this type of fanfilm...

    But then you've got the *exact same people* turning around and using home DV cams and BSing around with toys with no set script and knocking out something like "Crazy Watto"... which is it? professional? average-guy film? It's definitely made *by* professionals, but it's made in a most average way...

    And then you've got the people who don't really work in the industry, but would like to but have great ideas, and through sheer force of will learn how to do this stuff and end up turning out something that looks as good as many of the more "professional" entries... films like "Duality", "The Formula", and "Doom Raiders" spring to mind...

    Where am I going with this? Not sure... :) It's late and I'm still packing for the trip... But I think the biggest differentiating factor in what might be considered a "professional" fanfilm lies in what percentage of the cast and crew is being paid to do the work in a film...

    And it's not *entirely* true anymore that you can't make money off of fanfilms... you certainly can't make money off of material that has copyright violations, which accounts for the majority of fanfilms that exist now... but you get stuff like "George Lucas in Love" or "Doom Raiders" or "The Formula" (once they deal with their music issues) or the Atom films, and you're getting into a realm of fanfilm that can be classified professional in another regard - if not profit, at least a potential revenue stream...

    "Professional FanFilm" - It's a very hard term to nail down... any or all of the above could be called that, depending on your own certain point of view....

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?
    The problem with this is that there's no one place for all the fanfilms that are out there... you've got TFN, Atomfilms, MediaTrip, Ifilm, FanFilmFX and others, plus all the people who didn't get hosted on any of those and are simply hosting their films themselves... there's no one governing board over all these site telling them how to rate, advertise, market, or host the myriad of films that are out there... nor should there be... all these sites have their own individual acceptance and content policies, and filmmakers have to option to choose among them...

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?
    The better the final product looks, the better the hobby is going to come off... people see something with high production values and think "I can get in on that action
     
  19. Dack_Colton

    Dack_Colton Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2001
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    In my mind no, as the filmmakers cannot earn money from the finished production. There have certainly been films with professional looking results, of that there is no question. A lot of films look fabulous but as has been said many times, great FX do not make a film. Some of the scripting in films has left me absolutely wincing and other films would have benefitted from slightly more judicious editing. Ultimately all fanfilms are a labour of love by the people that make them.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    If anything perhaps the fanfilm hobby (or TFN) should think about it's own version of the Oscar's, giving out awards for best FX, best editing, best actor, etc. That way, even films that might not have the best FX but have done well in the costume/editing/sound front could get a look in.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    This is tricky, bit of a double-edged sword, on the one hand it's a good thing because we all enjoy watching them and seeing how much people must have put in. On the other hand the better your film is then the audience will want more the next time, this then creates an upwards sliding scale of expectations that some people will never be able to meet.

    When I first joined this forum, Duality had just come out and like everyone else I was impressed by the level of FX work and it deserved all the praise heeped on it. That level of FX is something I know I can't achieve but none the less my own project is going ahead and starts shooting in around a months time, why? Me and the people involved are enjoying it and having fun at making a movie and ultimately, isn't that the point?
     
  20. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2000
    If anything perhaps the fanfilm hobby (or TFN) should think about it's own version of the Oscar's, giving out awards for best FX, best editing, best actor, etc. That way, even films that might not have the best FX but have done well in the costume/editing/sound front could get a look in.



    It's on it's way, Dack ... it's on it's way
    (and sooner than you might think)
    ;)
     
  21. JEDIBYKNIGHT

    JEDIBYKNIGHT Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2001
    TAC, never say "sooner than you think"... There seems to be a curse on those words... ;)
     
  22. Semaj Ovured

    Semaj Ovured Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2000
    Personally, I always think it's good to RAISE THE BAR in one's craft. And all should strive as best as they can to do so. Within the limits of their own personal situation that is.

    If you look at the so-called professional fan films ... they motivate us to stretch ... to say "how'd they do that and can I do it cheaper?"

    If you think about it ... that's what we seek to achieve here anyway by doing the best we can do to tell a story in GEORGE'S UNIVERSE.

    I don't look at the professional style fan films as being unfair ... I look at them as motivation just as I look at the original Star Wars films as motivation.

    And in the end ... it all comes down to the story anyway. You can have a great story and average effects and, at least for me, it will be more enjoyable than a coast-to-coast FX fest.

     
  23. darth_kohai

    darth_kohai Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    I didn't real all the other posts, becuase I didn't want to be influenced by them, so this may have been said.

    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    Strictly speaking, there can be no such thing as a professional fanfilm. One implies money making, the other implies zero money. They are mutually exclusive.

    That being said, there are those fanfilmers who have industry experience, so they would have an advantage. On a slightly lower level, there are the film students, who have more knowledge than the average person, but usually not as much as the people in the industry. This is not to say the average person cannot learn the techniques himself, but he starts at a disadvantage. There does exist hobbiests who are as proficient, or even more, than a professional in the same area. Thus, it would not be unrealistic to see a hobbiest's work best the professional's work.

    I think the major dividing line comes when equipment and resources are thrown into the mix. People with access to high-end equipment, full studios, professional cast and crew, etc., will in general be able to produce better results in a smaller timeframe.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in the production values of FanFilms, in terms of how they are showcased and/or promoted?

    Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I do this as a hobby for myself, and I'm not comparing my work to anyone else. Others may feel differently. In the extreme case, there may be people who never even start due to a feeling of inadequacy when compared against the big projects. We often see new people try to outdo the big productions with 'the biggest fanfilm ever', only to later find out it's futile without the experience and resources.

    The example that readily comes to mind is 'Duel', by the Crew of Two. It was a breakthrough in it's day, but would likely not be recognized today. The bar has been raised to a point where new fanfilmers see only the high end productions. Most of the 'Duels' made these days seem to be banished to Geocities and Tripod, while we see only the large efforts at TFN (for example). Because of this, the new fanfilmer does not get the chance to see that he is not alone, that not everyone is creating these large works.

    In my opinion, the way to combat this is to simply not ignore the small projects. Perhaps several categories can be implemented based on budget, or similar criteria. We need to celebrate the small efforts, because the makers of these are the future for the large efforts which will push the fanfilm envelope.

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    My personal opinions on this are mixed. While they add to the hobby as a whole, there are the considerations I discussed above. They can give us something to shoot for, or discourage us to the point of abandoning the hobby. We enjoy watching these larger productions, but would be hard pressed to compete with the quality. Personally, since I'm not in competition with anyone here, I enjoy having them around.
     
  24. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    what foxbatkiller said, but adding "Skills" to the time and money on number one.

    I didn't put "Skills" down because I believe time and money can make up for that (i.e. taking classes, hiring someone else, etc...).

    Edit: Though skills are very important if you don't have the time to do them or the resources (money) you are limited. Even the best artist cannot survive on blender and windows moviemaker...
     
  25. Lord_Rive

    Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    1. Do you think there is really such a thing as a "Professional FanFilm?" If so, what is the difference between these so called "professional FanFilms" and your average-guy FanFilm?

    A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on the word "Professional" as it relates to payment. Professional has a wider meaning, though:

    pro·fes·sion·al   Pronunciation Key  (pr-fsh-nl)
    adj.
    1. a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession:[i lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.[/i]
    b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
    2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
    3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
    4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.


    n.
    1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
    2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
    3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

    From the above definitions, particularly "Having or showing a great skill; expert" and "A skilled practitioner; an expert", we get a slightly wider opportunity for the usage of the word as it relates to fan films.

    That said, I don't really care. Call the fan-film what you will. If it was made either by professionals or in a professional manner, call it a professional fan film. The thing that I don't like with respect to the term is when it is used as some kind of excuse or as a dismissive term, as in, "Yeah, they did a good job, but what do you expect? They're professionals!"

    Which leads me to...

    3. Are the higher production value FanFilms, in your opinion, a good thing or a bad thing for the overall FanFilm Community?

    (yeah, I'm going out of order, because the answer to question three has a bearing on the answer to question two.)

    It depends on your prospective. Look, I invested more than a year of my life into Duality. Frankly, I worked my keester off on the thing. So did Mark. But I have to say that I find the whole "FanFilm Community" thing a little... odd. See, I'm not under the impression that what we're doing is in any way high art. It's a fun little hobby. It's an opportunity to play with some tools in a ready-made universe that a lot of fans enjoy. Now, some are going to have the wherewithal to make Fan Films that are more entertaining (either through their skills with the tools of the trade, their athleticism, their acting, their locations or whatever), and others will be less so. But I truly believe that this should in no way detract from what the activity is in the first place. It should be about having fun. It should be about sharing that fun with other people. The fact that one guy has more talent than another shouldn't detract from anyone else's fun at the process.

    Look, I suck at Scrabble (or, at least, my wife kicks my butt every time we play). There are others out there that have incredible skill at the game. Does their existence therefore preclude my ability to play? No -- of course not. I should be able to play, too.

    The thing with Fan Films, though, is that everyone plays together, and people have a tendency to be judgemental about things that, well, are a bit absurd. It's like criticizing Duel of the Fakes for having bad special effects -- c'mon, the effects weren't the point. Speaking of which, the story wasn't the point of Duality either. Those criticisms are like going to a Chinese restaurant and complaining that they don't have enchiladas. But those criticisms always seem to surge forth, so those participating in the activity on a lower scale become reluctant to put their stuff out there (just as I may be reluctant to play Scrabble at a professional tournament). And that's unfortunate, because many of the lower-end productions (if I may be so crass as to use such a term) have a lot to offer.

    2. Do you think that there should be some kind of official distinction in th
     
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