Proof of Palpatine orchestrating Shmi's kidnapping?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Lord Mauly Mall, Jun 24, 2002.

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  1. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    The Tusken's abduction of Shmi has been an issue that people have discussed since the movie came out: did she simply stray too far and was taken by the Tuskens because of their savage nature or was it all planned so that Anakin would try to rescue her?

    I don't recall anyone having raised this particular point, but correct me if that's not the case:

    The Darth Sidious/Emperor theme is played while Anakin is confessing to Padme.
    Click to hear it for yourself

    As you can hear from Charlie Martel's sound file, the Sidious/Emperor theme is clearly there. Could Lucas have given John Williams a bit of insight into the situation with the Tuskens that included Palpatine's involvement? Besides the obvious dark side element, why else would Williams play that piece of music culminating in the Imperial March? I've often felt that the Tusken's abduction of Shmi was orchestrated by Palpatine and I think Williams' use of the Emperor's theme is an indication of that, but what do you folks think based on the use of that music during this pivotal scene?
  2. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I've always believed Palpatine had a hand in Shmi's death. Otherwise, it's all a little too neat and convenient. It would also lend more power to Sidious' control over Anakin.
  3. Icebreaker Force Ghost

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    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    No0o...Palpy had nothing to do with it, if he did the plot would have just gotten that much thicker and there would have to be too much explaining done in Episode III to clear it up.

    The point about Palpy's theme playing during Anakin's confession...well I just assumed that was played to show that Anakin is becoming more 'like' Palpy

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  4. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Great thinking LMM; about anything could happen IMO. Why, you see my several THEORY threads in the Episode III NSA...but noone of those theories have been this good.
  5. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

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    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    Well, I don't think the use of the Emperor's theme can be considered a proof in itself.

    Obviously Williams use of musical themes in AOTC is blurred. We do not have the usual 1 theme=1 character in AOTC.

    It looks like the Emperor's theme could be used as the dark side theme, or the Sith theme.
    It is also true that the Tusken slaughter serves Palpatine's seduction of Anakin. So it fits well that his theme is played during that scene.

    We are left with our original speculation : does Sidious have a hand in this or not ?

    But the music is of no use to find the answer I'm afraid ...
  6. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    But how could Sidious have arranged something like that? I just don't see Tuskens making deals with anyone.
  7. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Another point...there have been many instances when Williams uses other characters themes in certain places. The most prominent place in Star Wars I remember this happening in was in "A New Hope" when Ben is killed and we hear Leia's theme played. If you look in the little booklet that comes with the soundtrack you will see that Williams just thought it was a more dramatic theme that would work well in the scene.

    Thats what happened in this case as well
    ;)

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  8. Padmes_Love_Slave Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 1
    No, It's just something that happens, I suppose you'll say that he had a hand in Cleigg losing his leg too! Maybe he'll say he did, to use to his advantage, but didn't. What proof was there? I didn't read any. You suckered us in! Isn't this an episode 3 thread?
  9. Firespray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    And again I have to read this theory and again I have to post this!

    Folks, what would be the use of Palpy beeing responcible for Shmis death? How would it serve him. Wouldnt Anakin hate him and wouldnt he want to have revenge?

    Look at the OT! Vader serves Palpy like a housepet.

    Okay, now you could say, Anakin never will know Palpatine being responcible. But where would be the use for the plot then?

    And think about this:

    IF PALPATINE IS RESPOCIBLE FOR EVERYTHING THEN THE MAINCHARACHTERS ARE RESPONCIBLE FOR NOTHING! THEY NEVER EVER WOULD BE GUILTY FOR ANYTHING!

    Where would be the message in such a film?
  10. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I think that Williams used the Emperor's theme in there because (like the Emperor himself) that theme represents the Dark Side (like Vader's theme is also Imperial theme, the Emperor's theme can be also the Dark Side theme).

    But I don't think Palpy has got something to do with Shmi's death. He definitely uses it as an advantage, but I don't believe that he would be in league with the Tuskens.
  11. darthmalorkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2001
    I agree about the responsibility-Anakin had it in him to snap without Palpatine's influence.

    If anything, Palpatine senses the murder ot the Tuskens just like Yoda does, and then sees it as his opportunity to take Anakin's seduction to the next level.
  12. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Easy there. :eek:

    The characters are still responsible for what they do. Anakin didn't have to kill all those Tuskins. But the other side of the coin is that Palpatine seems to have no hand in turning Dooku to the dark side and it looks like very little in turning Anakin. Palpatine has to do something on this front. He can't just have two powerful Jedi turn to the dark side and fall into his lap. That would suck. It's bad enough that the Republic is such a mess and ripe for the picking.
  13. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    How would you explain this:

    In TPM Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Count Dooku, Qui-Gon's former mentor, eventually joined Darth Sidious, the man responsible for Darth Maul, as Sidious' 'housepet'.

    So how would Anakin joining Palpatine, the man that could be responible for Shmi's death, be considered far fetched when there's already an example with the relationship between Dooku and Sidious?

    There's a pattern of Palpatine making his apprentices give in to their hate to join him. We saw that in ROTJ and the Emperor's taunting of Luke and it most likely happened the same way with Dooku. I think using hate to lure Anakin to the dark side is an important point.
  14. Vodstok Jedi Knight

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    May 13, 2002
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    For my views, which I have extoled in other posts, read the last line of my sig. That pretty much sums it up.
  15. Padmes_Love_Slave Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 23, 2002
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    Hey Padme Bra, if you have been a user since 1999 and chose the name Padme Bra. The character would have been 14 years old. In conclusion your nasty!
  16. Vodstok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
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    Using their hate, yes, but did sidious make Dooku leave the Jedi? No. So why should his responsibility in this be so dramatic and out there?
    And if he was going to have some overly-complicated plot for something like this to happen, why not have her brought to coruscant, then pitched off a building or something? Anakin would then get to see her, think his life was going to return to his boyhood hapiness, then plunge off the deep end. That would have crippled him emotionally much more.
  17. Darth_Fisto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2002
    star 4
    LORD MAULY MALL

    I clicked that link to get the MP3, and I got a lot of VERY DODGY POP UP ADS. For very dodgy sites.


    On a more positive note, I think thats interesting, and the music isn't accidental, so it must mean something.
  18. Polaris_Fett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 2
    Interesting idea.

    It would explain the rather convenient plot device of having her die JUST as he gets there...so he can witness it, and have his already volatile nature pushed that much closer to the Dark Side, by providing him with a chance for vengeance against those who took away what he holds most dear...his mother. And it's established in PM that that is his greatest fear...losing her. And he does give in, without a thought, bringing him closer to the ways of anger and violence.

    All too easy.

    Also, Palpatine has been working on pushing him to the Dark Side, probably for years now..it's clear they've had a kind of mentor-student relationship for some time now. Palpatine would know his weakness, and exactly how to exploit it. We already know he has him in mind for a career as a Sith!

    Hmm. Also...the Dark Side (i.e. Palpatine) has been clouding the Jedi from seeing the future. Isn't it interesting that Anakin senses his mother's pain, and comes along *just* as she's dying, when other Jedi are having difficulties?

  19. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    The simple fact of the matter is that Palpatine uses someone's hatred to make them his. It's like that old saying, once you make someone angry you own them, or something like that.

    Darth_Fisto, you'll have to excuse whatever pops up as a result of hitting that link since it's not my site. For what it's worth I didn't get any weird pop up ads here at work.
  20. DarthHutt Force Ghost

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    Aug 2, 2000
    star 5
    Palpatine could just blame Dooku for Shmi's death (if he orchestrated it)...then Anakin would do terrrrrrrible things to him.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It was just used to show that Anakin was falling to the dark side. The Dark Side Beackons... just doesn't fit in the way it did in ROTJ. Where the Emperor's theme does fit.
  22. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    But Anakin has his own dark side theme, the Imperial March. Why would Williams throw in the Emperor's music when there's not only the Imperial March but also new dark pieces of music that were used during Anakin's slaughtering of the Tuskens and for Jango?
  23. Icebreaker Force Ghost

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    Aug 20, 2001
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    Lord Mauly Mall...did you even READ what I posted above?

    ...there have been many instances when Williams uses other characters themes in certain places...in "A New Hope" when Ben is killed and we hear Leia's theme played...Williams just thought it was a more dramatic theme that would work well in the scene...

    The same thing happened in this case. Thats pretty much the end of the story, I think your looking just a *little* too deep at this

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  24. big_boss_nass Force Ghost

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    Nov 12, 2001
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    I also believe you hear Palpatines throne room theme when Anakin and Palpatine are talking on alone.
  25. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    Icebreaker, yes I read your post but I don't think it works the same way with this particular scene because of its importance. And how deeply can one look at this? Pretty damn deep I think. Big boss, I don't recall hearing the Emperor's theme during Palpatine's conversation with Anakin in his office.
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