Proof of Palpatine orchestrating Shmi's kidnapping?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Lord Mauly Mall, Jun 24, 2002.

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  1. MobartZmuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 4
    I am beginning to think that perhaps Palpatine does have a hand in Shmi's death. John Williams' musical score exemplifies this point somewhat.

    I believe Palpatine might have orchestrated Shmi's death because Anakin and Luke are supposed to have similiar life experiences, but make different choices. In ANH, Luke knows Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were killed by the Empire (i.e. Palpatine) and instead of flipping out like his father, he decided to train to become a Jedi, but Anakin goes berserk after witnessing Shmi's death.
  2. DarthVegas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2000
    star 4

    There is viable reason to think that Palpatine did have a hand in the Tusken incident.

    The music theory is arguable but the point is still clear. Perhaps there was a manipulation involving Palpy.

    When Palpatine suggested a Jedi to guard Padme, he first suggested Obi-Wan. Maybe to keep a good eye on Anakin as we had been doing prior to AOTC. Listen to how Palpatine talks to Anakin.

    "So they've finally given you a task." Almost like a grandfather. Like they always talk. When Ani was 8, the entire Jedi council knew where Anakin's fear lie. No doubt Palpatine could sense this also.

    He had been having nightmares from the beginning. There's no motive for the Tuskens to hold someone hostage. They beat you down and take your things. Period. There was no reasoning for the Tuskens to slaughter Jawas as Obi-Wan knowledged in ANH.

    One cannot simply dispute this. By all means you can argue this, but it's reason enough to say Palpatine has FORSEEN EVERYTHING. So why wouldn't he manipulate the chosen one into becoming his new apprentice? That's exactly what this story is about.
  3. xwing Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 1
    I'm in the camp that believes Sideous had a role in these events. Assuming this is an accurate version of the shooting script, the cut line
    OWEN: I wish he'd have come a bit earlier

    as Anakin sets off to find his mother sounds like a hint that there are other forces involved.

    I also liked Polaris_Fett's point:
    ...the Dark Side (i.e. Palpatine) has been clouding the Jedi from seeing the future. Isn't it interesting that Anakin senses his mother's pain, and comes along *just* as she's dying, when other Jedi are having difficulties?


    Even if Sideous is manipulating these events, it may not actually be revealed on-screen in ep. III.
  4. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Wait...so0o Obi-Wans death to his apprentice isnt as important as the scene your talking about? So0o therefore what JOHN WILLIAMS said isnt valid? Um...I dunno 'bout that

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  5. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Well with this line of thinking, I guess that Count Dooku will shave his beard and become the Emperor. Afterall, it plays the Emperor's theme as Dooku arrives on Coruscant and proceeds to the old section, then switches to new music when Sidious is shown. Oh well, I guess we have just discovered the new twist in Star Wars, that being Palpatine will never become Emperor! The proof is in the pudding, all because of the music!
  6. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Always remember these two lines:

    "Everything is going as planned."
    "Everything is proceeding as I have forseen it"

    Palpatine is manipulating a great deal, and I have no doubt that he orchestrated Shmi's death.
  7. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Darth Jamus
    HeHeHe...Funny
    :D

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  8. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    "...the Dark Side (i.e. Palpatine) has been clouding the Jedi from seeing the future. Isn't it interesting that Anakin senses his mother's pain, and comes along *just* as she's dying, when other Jedi are having difficulties?"

    Anakin is not seeing the future, he is merely sensing what is happenING, not what is going to happen. Remember that Clieg Lars said that the Tuskens took Schmi about a month ago. Palpatine has nothing to do with the abduction. I like the fact that it JUST happens because that is the way fate works!
  9. tomm4004 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    I suppose it depends on how conspiratorial you want to be. And the more you see it the more you want to read things into it.

    "I'm so proud of you." What for? For growing up? For coming after her? For being a Jedi? How does she know? From his outfit, his use of the lightsaber?

    "And now am I complete." Again, why? Because she's seen her son ("Then we will see each other again")? Because she fulfilled her duty to Palpatine?

    Her words can be taken as cryptic or simple, depending on how you want to look at it. Was she hanging on for Anakin to come? How did she know he would come? Then, why couldn't she hold on longer? We can go crazy with speculation. I'll be a bit surprised if it's orchestrated, but not shocked.
  10. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    This is getting out of hand...some of you are starting to believe that ol' Palpy can manipulate ANYTHING. Here are some things to think about:

    1) How would he have known that Anakin's mom was now married to Cliegg Lars and she lived at the homestead?

    2) How would he have even contacted the Tusken's let along have a conversation with or orchestrate Shmi's capture with them?

    3) When would he have the TIME to be involved in such an insignificant matter when his main focus was the Clone Army?

    4) Why would he be worried about Anakin at this time when he has a fully capable apprentice in Dooku?


    The list goes on and on...in fact now that I think about it, this should almost go in the Episode III discussion forum.

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  11. Slave-2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 2
    I think that Palpatine does have a part to play in it. The event is one of the triggers of Anakins descent to the dark side and I think it was ochestrated to do just that.
    As Darth Sidious(who is undoubtedly Palpatine) says "Everything is proceeding as planned" (sorry if I've got the qoute wrong!).
  12. DarthHutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2000
    star 5
    1) How would he have known that Anakin's mom was now married to Cliegg Lars and she lived at the homestead?

    Palpatine: "We will watch your career with great interest."
    Might he not also keep an eye on his mother?



    2) How would he have even contacted the Tusken's let along have a conversation with or orchestrate Shmi's capture with them?

    BOUNTY HUNTERS?


    3) When would he have the TIME to be involved in such an insignificant matter when his main focus was the Clone Army?

    Trying to get a new apprentince is NOT insignificant.


    4) Why would he be worried about Anakin at this time when he has a fully capable apprentice in Dooku?

    He's done with Dooku. He has served his purpose and now Palpy needs a new, younger apprentice.
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    1) How would he have known that Anakin's mom was now married to Cliegg Lars and she lived at the homestead?

    2) How would he have even contacted the Tusken's let along have a conversation with or orchestrate Shmi's capture with them?

    3) When would he have the TIME to be involved in such an insignificant matter when his main focus was the Clone Army?

    4) Why would he be worried about Anakin at this time when he has a fully capable apprentice in Dooku?


    1: The Force.

    2: Spies or Force-manipulation.

    3: He'd find the time. Not only is it not insignificant, but it's tremendously significant. It helped pave the way for Anakin's turn to the dark side, his eventual departure (we presume) fron the Jedi Order and his becoming Palpatine's apprentice.

    4: He knows Anakin could be a threat to him, and that Anakin is indeed a powerful Jedi.

    Edit: Amen to your reasoning, DarthHutt. Good post.
  14. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Doesnt anyone else agree that this is *stretching* it just a bit to think that Palpy had a big hand in this...I mean even your responses (DarthHutt) to my retorical (SP) questions were kinda far-fetched and I can't see Palpy wasting his time with Anakin's mother when he has so0o much more going on (ie. Army of the Republic, getting complete control of the Republic)

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  15. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    Icebreaker, IMO questions 1-3 can be answered with one name: Aurra Sing. She is a bounty hunter and the only one seen on Tatooine in the prequels so far. Despite the fact that she wasn't in AOTC, I think certain revelations about Shmi's abduction involving Sing will come about in Ep3.

    As for question #4, Palpatine said to Anakin himself while talking with him in his office that he sees him being even more powerful than Yoda. That's a good reason to want to lure Anakin to the dark side, he sees much potential in him.
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    When Anakin left Naboo to find his mother, I immediately thought of Palpatine and his controlling either the visions or his mother's fate (or both). The first time I saw the film, that is.

    Also, no matter how much control Palpatine gains over the Republic, if Anakin is a Jedi and lined up against him, the advantage lies with the Jedi (or certainly not with Palpatine). Palpatine knows he needs to control that which could stop him.
  17. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    K, when Aurra Sing gets brought into the conversation thats it for me (LoL) I am oughta here...

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Interesting that you depart (or say you will) instead of answering multiple points made against your position.
  19. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    The Dark Side manipulates everything.
  20. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Um...No, don't be a smart ass. I made my point, you made yours...I cant debate when primarily EU characters are brought into the mix

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  21. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I don't believe any of the points made in favor of Palpatine manipulating things is stretching things, nor do I believe Palpatine is mainly an EU character. I think he could easily have done this all (or almost all) on his own.
  22. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Um...I was referring to Aurra Sing
    [face_plain]

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  23. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I wasn't, and haven't.

    My points were made without using EU characters.
  24. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    ...and I was talking to Lord Mauly Mall...
    [face_plain]

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  25. Master Chbel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2000
    star 4
    Palpatine will never be linked to Shmi's death. There are too many *dead* links. Yes, I believe he had his agents use their agents to get to Shmi.

    As to why would the Tusken's make a deal with anyone?

    Guns--they must get them from somewhere. A person approaches them to capture Cliegg's woman for a lot of guns...If Anakin didn't massacre the Tuskens and had traced the trail back, this person could have had a reason to go after Cliegg--and no connection to Palpatine, Sidious, or Dooku...(or so it appears).

    I suspect this may be one of those questions that will forever be, did he or didn't he.

    And it's actually a good one to leave unanswered.

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