Proof of Palpatine orchestrating Shmi's kidnapping?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Lord Mauly Mall, Jun 24, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    At any rate, it's good to see that many others feel the same about Palpatine controlling things to such a great extent. Some of his greatest influence can't be seen, and that's a major reason why he wasn't stopped in time.
  2. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    IceBreaker, I don't want to turn this into a canon vs. EU debate, but Aurra Sing was in a movie. If you want to use me mentioning her as an excuse to exit the discussion, cya!
  3. Maul5 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 3
    There is a good chance he had something to do with it and the Music clip is Just the first clue:

    Why would the sand people Keep her for so Long???( It couldnt be for Hostage reasons or Money or to make a point so why??) they killed most of the hunting party that tried to save her, why not capture them too if they wanted Hostages or ransom. Because they only wanted and needed her.

    Why beat her so bad, she was no threat to them they beat her enough to cause her alot of pain but not kill her. just like what Darth Vader was doing to Han and the gang in ESB to get Lukes attention and go to the cloud city. this worked on Anakin as well.

    Also Why put out guards for someone beat up that bad and who is tied up???Because she was very Important to the sandpeople and they thought they were going to get something out of it so they made double sure she didnt escape.

    Good Post LMM I think alot of people or going to be shocked when they find out this is true
  4. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    You've got some good points yourself, Maul5. In particular the one of Vader and Luke in ESB. How did Vader come up with the plan of capturing Luke's friends and torturing Han to lure him to Cloud City? Hmmm...maybe because he remembers the insidious scheme Palpatine used many years before involving his mother.

    Besides the music, to me that is the strongest point.

    Edit: I also agree that if this turns out to be the case then a lot of people will be surprised come Ep3. Might not be as big a shocker as "I am your father" but pretty darn close.
  5. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    I don't know where those pop-ups come from... I only experienced them once after I signed up at that host. Pretty wierd. The 50 megs and lots of bandwidth is excellent though :D

    On topic, I also think the Emperor's Theme was just representing the Dark Side. But hey, you never know. I used to think Palaptine was involved... but I think that's just too much puppetry from ol' Palpatine. It's like that saying: "Shhhi'ite happens" :)
  6. tomm4004 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    >4) Why would he be worried about Anakin at this time when he has a fully capable apprentice in Dooku?

    This brings up an interesting point. Palpatine is planning to take over the galaxy. To do this he has to remove the Jedi. How? It wouldn't appear to be easy. He sees that Anakin is going to become the most powerful of Jedi. So, he either has to get rid of him or turn him. We already know that he does the latter. How? Luck?

    I have a hard time believing he's behind Shmi's death, but it does makes sense that he has something planned for Anakin and there's really nothing else on the table.
  7. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    When Luke was knocked unconscious by sand people in ANH, they took his body with them over to the landspeeder and began to ransack the vehicle. Why did they drag Luke along with them? Answer; because they were planning to keep him around as a punching bag too. The only reason he was left was because Obi-Wan scared them off with a strange noise. Humans are trespassers on Tatooine. Sand People hate them and do things like this in their attempts to make people leave. They are viscious creatures who have no morales as to who they attack and kill. They would have no interest in dealing with humans or bounty hunters. I suppose Palpatine was behind Luke getting attacked too, huh? Maybe it was part of his plan to phase out Vader and get a younger apprentice. Give me a break!
  8. Lord-Gretzky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 3
    Anyone who thinks Palpy didn't have a hand in what happened to Shmi, do you think that Palpatine was just going to leave it up to chance wether Anakin would turn to the darkside? Hope for the best? Hasn't everything about that character, Palpatine that is, in every movie been about him setting up situations to get his desired scenario? I'm not saying the specifics of Shmi's kidnapping were planned by Palpatine, like that he contacted the sand people himself or even had that in mind, but the general action of something bad happening to her was set up by Palpatine in my opinion. It doesn't make sense to me that Palpatine would create such a long and rather complex plan to gain control of the republic, yet just let Anakin go about his own business without trying to plan his turn to the darkside when he is supposedly to be such a powerful jedi.
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I don't think Anakin ever figures out that Palpatine was behind his mother's death until the end of ROTJ, when all the pieces fall into place for him.
  10. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    "do you think that Palpatine was just going to leave it up to chance wether Anakin would turn to the darkside?"

    Palpatine sees the future (while clouding the Jedi's vision). He already knows Anakin will turn to him, there is no "chance" to it. He probably foresees the death of Anakin's mother, but has nothing to actually do with it. He simply knows how and when all the pieces will fall into place.

    "but the general action of something bad happening to her was set up by Palpatine in my opinion"

    What is that supposed to mean? The general action of something?? Not making contact with the sand people, but still general action??

    "I don't think Anakin ever figures out that Palpatine was behind his mother's death until the end of ROTJ, when all the pieces fall into place for him"

    That's because Palpatine had nothing to do with it, so there was nothing for Anakin to figure out! Nothing happened in ROTJ which would make him *suddenly* realize Palps was responsible.

    What's wrong with the death of Anakin's mother being fate? It was fate that his mother died in his arms, then Palpatine uses this to further Anakin's decline into the dark side. Everything is already being set up by Palpatine for his fall, hence his feeding Anakin's ego. It has already caused him to be rebellious. If anything, Palpatine purposely set Anakin up to help guard Padme seeing that he probably knows of Anakin's crush on her. He is manipulating enough without going to the ridiculous extreme of killing his mother. I'll stick with random events, which is always the case in real life, leading Anakin to his first encounter with fate and the dark side.
  11. DARTH_MICFITZ Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Lord Mauly Mall

    You have brought up a good topic. It makes you wonder just how complicated is the SW Universe that George Lucas seems to be constantly weaving? I would like to think that there is something more than the obvious dark side element when Anakin decimates the Tusken Raider camp.

    Darth_MicFitz
  12. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    And what is wrong with "the dark side element"? Everyone has a dark side, why must everything in Star Wars be the result of Palpatine's manipulations? Is there anyone manipulating the great evil men in our worlds history? No, just the evil that men do!
  13. Lord-Gretzky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 3
    Jamus, Did Palpatine set up the position in which he himself is in right now? Or did he just foresee it happening in the future and let it happen? If he saw himself taking over the Republic in the future, he wouldn't have to do anything would he have? That's essentially what your saying. Just because he can see the future does not mean he doesn't have to actually do something to make it happen. And in a general way is quite simple, think for a moment, thanks. If he maybe contacted a bounty hunter and told this bounty hunter to have shmi kidnapped, isn't that exactly what happened? She got kidnapped right? And if it did go down like that, not that Im saying that's what happened, then Palapatine would have been involved in a general way, correct? He wouldn't have said specifically how or who to have kidnap her right? General. Thanks for even trying to think.
  14. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Of course Palpatine manipulated his way to the top, I never said he didn't. But he doesn't have to manipulate every last detail of everyone's lives. I don't see a problem with him foreseeing Anakin's fall to the dark side. As I said before, he is already feeding his ego and such. If he foresees Schmi's death, good for him, he can use it! That doesn't mean he caused it. Haven't you ever heard of "going with the flow of things"?

    While we are at it, let's just say that Palpatine manipulated Valorum into sending Qui-Gon to Naboo, or for that matter, Palpatine manipulated Watto into betting Anakin knowing that Qui-Gon would win him. All this in his manipulatory plan to get Anakin as his apprentice. Heck, he may have manipulated Sebulba into throwing the pod race! These outlandish UN-possibilities hold just as much water as you're Schmi theory does.

    Wow, LORD_GRETZKY, we joined this forum on the same month and year!
  15. Xentrix Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Darth Jamus: I like your ideas, and it's got me thinking. Suppose that's the reason why Sidious orchestrated the Trade Federation blockade of Naboo ("This plan of yours has failed Lord Sidious"): if he knew of Anakin being on a nearby planet (Tatooine), then he probably also knew that the Supreme Chancellour would despatch some Jedis to settle the dispute, and in the process then "sense" the presence of Anakin nearby ("Master, I have felt a disturbance in the Force").

    Then it was only a matter of time before the Force led the Jedi to Anakin.
  16. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    Everything that happened was the Will of the Force, not Palpatine.
  17. Steak_Sammich Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2001
    star 1
    Sorry guys, but this theory ranks right up there with Dagobah=Naboo, Mace=Jedi Traitor, and palpatine= clone of Sidous.
  18. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I don't know. It's kinda like Yodas theme playing while Leia and Lando are fleeing cloud city.


    But I still believe Palpatine had the Tuskens kill his mother.

    There's one thing that gives it away. Palpatine seperates Anakin from Obi-Wan at the beggining of the film. He wanted Obi-Wan to discover the clones and he wanted Anakin to taste the Dark Side.

    Many people seem to think that Palpatine only seperated the two so that Obi would discover the clones. But Palpatine always has plans within plans.

    Palpatine knew that without Obi's guidance, Anakin would run off to try and save his mother. And fail. This is why Palpatine gives him that extra boost of confidence before he leaves. Just to make the pain worse.

    That's what people should be looking at. Also Palpatine wanted Padme away from the capital. It was 3 outcomes to one plan. It was brilliant.
  19. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    It's possible that while

    *Dooku dealt with
    **Jango who dealt with
    ***Zam to try and kill Padme,


    *Palpatine dealt with
    **Aurra Sing(?) who in turn dealt with the
    ***Tuskens to abduct Shmi.

    Palpatine dealt with Anakin while Dooku dealt with Padme. Two Sith Lords hard at work either turning or eliminating key players by contracting bounty hunters while at the same time executing their evil political schemes as Chancellor Palpatine and Count Dooku.
  20. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Thats a LOT of trouble for Palpy to go through, when he could have done something a lot easier and less time consuming on Coruscant...Don't you think? I feel like some of the people in this thread...Why does Palpy have to manipulate EVERYTHING? Why can't some things happen because they DO?

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  21. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    BTW...how in the hell would Lucas explain all this in Episode III? Doesn't he have enough things to explain for things to fit with the OT? This would just be a waste of time in the movie...

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  22. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Because there is so much coincidence in Shmi's death that if it were not manipulated, it would akward.

    And if it is Palpatine then it adds more to the story of how Palpatine turns Anakin.

  23. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Because there is so much coincidence in Shmi's death that if it were not manipulated, it would akward

    That has to be the most ridiculous comment I have read all day...Seriously, once again why does everything have to be traced back to ol' Palpy why cant something happen which he didn't manipulate? Is HE more powerful then the WILL of the Force?

    If this turns out to be true then the Star Wars universe has *finally* gotten TOO small

    ~ICeBReaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  24. Lord-Gretzky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 3
    Why does Paply have to manipulate everything? Who said that? I personally only think he manipulates the major things that are important to his coming to power. And talk about going through alot of trouble, did you happen to notice how much trouble he went though to get to where he is at? Look at how much he had to manipulate to make the clone wars happen and to come into command of the republic and the clones. Not to mention it took 10 years to come around....10 years! That's alot of trouble to go through and he did it. Why is it so hard to believe the Palpatine would control the major events that may effect his possibilty to take over the Republic and create the Empire? Not everything, but the major and more important things, why not? Nothing in any of these movies havs given me the impression that any major event that happens in the movie is just random. It's just my opinion is all. And Jamus, my point is, just because he can foresee it in the future does not mean it will just happen. The actions to make the events happen have to take place before the events actually happen. Right? If it is just chance, isn't a remarkable coincidence? Youre right about the will of the force line, and you make my point just as you make yours by bringing it up. If Shmi dies, it would be the will of the force either way wouldn't it? Wether Palapatine was behind it or not, right?
  25. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    Welcome back, Ice. ;)

    How long did it take Vader to explain to Luke in ESB that he was his father? Did it involve home movies or DNA samples? Nope. "I am your father", one line, bam the boy is hooked.

    How long would it take for Palpatine to tell Anakin in Ep3 that it was really he who was behind Shmi's kidnapping? One line, something like, "It was I who had your mother abducted", bam the boy is hooked. Hooked on anger, hatred, and an all-consuming fire to strike down either Palpatine or Dooku making his journey to the dark side complete. At least until ROTJ. It wouldn't take that much to reveal something this big. It didn't take much for Anakin to reveal to Padme of the slaughter. A few choice, angry words and the message was clearly conveyed that Anakin killed the entire encampment and began his dark journey.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.