PROOF: Palpatine IS NOT Sidious. (lengthy proof)

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.

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  1. Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    OK, bear with me folks, I have to use all 4 films to give this proof.

    1. Sensing the Dark side of the force.

    IN TPM, Yoda said 'hard to see the dark side is'; not 'impossible'. Even young Luke could sense the Dark side on dagobah in ESB; even though no sith was there to manipulate it. Luke also sensed it before he saw Darth Vader in Bespin; he ignited his Sabre before seing Vader. Therefore, the Dark side's presence is easily detected in person, so to speak.

    In TPM, the entire Jedi Council stands next to Palpatine at Qui-Gonn's funeral. If he was the Sith master, they'd know it!

    2. The attempt to control then kill Queen
    Amidala in TPM.

    Two other things in TPM prove Sidious and Palpatine had different knowledge of events.

    Sidious wants the Queen controlled on Naboo to sign the treaty. When she is at Coruscant, Palpatine tries to discourage her from returning to Naboo, where she'd be forced to sign the treaty. If he was in fact Sidious, this is exactly what he wants. He would not try to discourage her.

    Further, and this is a clincher, Palpatine knows she returned to Naboo. But when Sidious talks to the Trade Viceroy, he does not warn her the Queen is coming!!! If Palpatine was Sidious he would have made sure they were warned of her coming, and were waiting for her arrival. Instead, she got past them.

    Also, Palpatine knew she 'was going to take back what is ours'. That she intended to fight to retake Naboo. She told him so before leaving Coruscant. But Sidious expressed surprise at learning of the Queen's arrival on the planet & organizing an army to fight... "this is an unexpected move for her... its too aggressive".

    3. Cloning (AOTC spoilers)

    We know the Senate was manipulated into granting Palpatine emergency powers. That he chose to create a clone army to defend the republic. Again, Sidious is working behind the scenes, using this as a means to setup the destruction of the Jedi.

    But the clone army is used to fight and defeat the forces of Darth Tyranus. It is not reasonable for Sidious to fight on both sides, so to speak.

    I think Sidious was behind the entire cloning program.

    I think Palpatine is one of the very first clones ever - a clone of Sidious himself.

    I believe Palpatine is what he appears to be - an ambitious but scrupulous politician. He is the Emperor, but one who never succumbed to the Dark Side of the Force. He is a Pawn.

    Sidious created Palpatine, a clone of himself. He manipulated events to get Palpatine elected chancellor. He then went further and engineered a revolt, knowing Palpatine would have no choice but to bow to senate pressure to declare an emergency.

    Using Palpatines innocent sincerity, he is able to keep the Jedi ignorant of his real designs. They deal with Palpatine regularly; and sense no evil. But since Palpatine is Sidious' clone...

    In Episode III, he kills or has Palpatine Killed so he can replace him. So he has acheived his goal of Galactic Empire, without ever putting himself at risk.

    You need only look at the OT to realize, the Emperor uses others to do his dirty work. Look at how he planned to use Luke to kill Vader and replace him. This is one sneaky manipulator.

    I doubt he would risk exposure to the entire Jedi Order by direct personal contact. It creates too much risk. Not to mention a huge plot quandary.

    NON-FILM PROOF

    Timothy Zahn wrote the Lucas-officially-sanctioned trilogy to follow ROTJ.

    In it, the Bad Guy is a CLONED JEDI MASTER! He is insane, and gave into the dark side.
    At the end of the Third book, he is referred to as the 'resurrected' Emperor.

    The emperor's Tarantus Mountain project is built around his secret cloning program.

    So it is only natural to infer that Cloning of Jedi is not a new thing. I submit that the Emperor cloned himself first; and created Palpatine.

    The idea that a Sith Master could deal with the Jedi council on a daily basis, as Palpatine does, and remain undiscovered is ludicrous. It is also contrary to the nature of the Empe
  2. civil_dissident Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    I'm gonna be the first to say it on this post, and I probably shouldn't because it's a redundant post that has been discussed countless times in other topic threads (and I don't have time to find links to them).

    PALPATINE=SIDIOUS ok? George Lucas and Rick McCallum have both said so.

    PLUS, ok? Get this, are you ready? The official databank on Star Wars.com talks about them being the same person.

    This debate is pointless. If it's proven otherwise in Ep III, I guess I and a lot of others will eat crow, but, I don't think that's gonna happen.

  3. HBMC_Kloon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    star 2
    I'm unbanned! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!

    Uhh, anyway, I was watching the TPM DVD yesterday and there was a Sidious line cut from the film:

    "Soon the Republic will be under my control."

    Soon, implying in the very near future. If Palpatine was a clone of the real Sidious, then him in control means Palpatine gets command then Sidious replaces him. Obviously, by AOTC he hasn't done this, so if "soon" is to be taken literally that means that Sidious is Palpatine, not a clone or whatever.

    I think that Lucas will make them Clones just to be different, but at this point I just don't believe it.

    BYE
  4. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
  5. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    What the heck, I'll bite.

    1) the oly Sith ever detected was Vader and that was because he wanted to be detected. No one detected Maul, Luke didn't mention anything about sensing the emperor, and no one sensed anything from Dooku. So there's no proof that the Sith are always detected.

    2) Palpatine knew that he wouldn't convince the Queen to not return to Naboo. He was merely playing the part he was supposed to. Sidious' reaction wasn't necessarally surprise.

    3) It is reasonable to fight both sides. That's how you start a war. He doesn't care about the confederacy any more than he cares about the republic. He just wants a war to give him new powers and toys and kill lots of Jedi.

    Palpatine cloning himself is EU nonsense. It's the same person.
  6. smauldookie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 5
    maybe that is one of the secrets revealed in ep3.

    and the fact that anakin does have a father.
  7. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think this would fit the mythic framework George Lucas has based his Saga on. True, in certain myths there is the theme of the dark brother/light brother - but while Sidious obviously fits the dark brother image, Palpatine can't really be seen as the light brother - all his actions, however well-meaning they seem, are designed to gain him more and more power. Sidious and Palpatine both seek ultimate control of the galaxy - the mythic framework can not support two characters who have such similar goals.
  8. darthsmozers Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 4
    well, Kudos to Jedi-Wanna-be for providing his evidence in a thoughful, interesting manner!
  9. Master_of_Darkness Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
  10. Darth_GumbyTom Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    Sidious is creating the clones to go up against the CIS armies because he's playing both sides up against the middle.

    Create the clones to:
    a)establish an army
    b)wipe out all opposition- first the droid armies of the CIS and other independent groups, then quash all opposition to the New Order.
  11. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    You know...

    Maybe he's right.

    I've been certain all along the Sidious=Palpatine, but I would've expected them to reveal it by now.

    maybe we're in for a big surprise in Episode III.
  12. jasman Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 1998
    star 4
    Where's Mr Horse when you need him? Sheesh!
  13. Master_of_Darkness Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    E-hem.

    [face_plain] [face_plain] [face_plain]

    Palpatine is Sidious. I've never been surer...
  14. Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    I think its possible for Lucas to 'lie' to us, while still telling the truth.

    Palpatine is Sidious; because one is a clone of the other.

    Remember, in ANH, it was said that Vader killed Anakin. Then, at the end of ESB, we learn that is not 'true'.

    Lies and truth, in the SW universe, depend on context and point of view.

    I think this is another example of Lucas pulling a fast one on us. And I say, kudos to him.
  15. shine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1999
    star 5
    I now firmly believe that Palpatine can manipulate the weak-minded. Even on the internet.
  16. MrCoulomb Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    Did you watch episode 1? I think one of the best moments is when Palpatine says:

    'No, stay here, where it's safe' and he sounds like he really doesn't mean it, and is just saying it because otherwise she might suspect if he's so willing to let her go.

    Watch it again, it's great.
  17. Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    I never let my mouth write cheques I cannot cover.

    If you think I am 'weak-minded', and totally wrong, then back it up.

    I'll wager $100 that I'm right. And I'm willing to wait the 2-3 years needed to prove it.

    IN Episode III, Sidious will reveal himself in a scene with both palpatine, and the remaining Jedi. Probably by that time, Anakin will have finished becoming Darth Vader, and be at Sidious' side.

    And if I am wrong... at least I am willing to exercise my grey matter. Rather than swallowing whole any garbage served up, as you seem so willing to do.
  18. shine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1999
    star 5
    I really liked your speech, Jar Jar.
  19. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
  20. ECM_Boba_Fett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 3
    I cant believe he wasted all his time typing that long theory to be wrong

    anyways watch Aotc and you will see they are the same

    There is couple lines that were said by mace and yoda that proves thr darkside is blocking the jedi

    Yoda " Blind we are if creation of this clone army we didnt see the "
    mace" maybe we should inform the senate that our abilty to use the force is dimished"

    yoda" Only the sith lord knows of our weakness if senate inform multiply our enemys will"


    What all that says is the darkside is covering everything and that palps can hide the darkside from the jedi as the darkside of the force is now stronger that the light side
  21. Darth Salacious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 1999
    star 3
    But the clone army is used to fight and defeat the forces of Darth Tyranus. It is not reasonable for Sidious to fight on both sides, so to speak.







    Uh, he does the exact same thing in TPM...works both sides of the plate to fight each other to get himself more power...DUH...
  22. Melancholy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    Scooby Doo, where are you????
  23. vw_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 4


    Further, and this is a clincher, Palpatine knows she returned to Naboo. But when Sidious talks to the Trade Viceroy, he does not warn her the Queen is coming!!! If Palpatine was Sidious he would have made sure they were warned of her coming, and were waiting for her arrival. Instead, she got past them.



    palpatine doesn't want control of naboo, nor does he care about the trade federations blockade. they were total pawns in his bid to seize control of the senate. he succeeded in doing that, so why would he care to warn them about padmes return? his plan already had worked.
  24. Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 1
    Then why did he send Darth Maul? If as you say, he no longer cared about Naboo. Surely there could've been more important tasks for his one-and-only Sith Apprentice.
  25. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
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