Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.
Still looking for Scooby Doo...and Sidious too.
Then why did he send Darth Maul? If as you say, he no longer cared about Naboo. Surely there could've been more important tasks for his one-and-only Sith Apprentice.
darth maul was sent to dispatch the jedi. or maybe even the viceroy to protect the fact that sith were involved.
After watching AOTC there is no doubt they are the same
"Palpatine tries to discourage her from returning to Naboo, where she'd be forced to sign the treaty. If he was in fact Sidious, this is exactly what he wants. He would not try to discourage her. "
Reverse psychology. And he knew Padme wouldn't just stay on Courascant.
"Further, and this is a clincher, Palpatine knows she returned to Naboo. But when Sidious talks to the Trade Viceroy, he does not warn her the Queen is coming!!! If Palpatine was Sidious he would have made sure they were warned of her coming, and were waiting for her arrival. Instead, she got past them. "
Palpy obviously didn't have a problem with her taking over Naboo again. Everything is going as he has forseen it.
I don't know if this helps the argument, but Luke Does NOT light the lightsaber before seeing vader. He sees him, walks up to him, and then ignites it.
What about this link?
[link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=6785023&page=1] Is Sidious Palpatine [/link]
You're saying that Palpatine IS NOT Sidious!
Palpatine was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Palpatine and became Darth Sidious. When that happened, the good man who was Palpatine was destroyed. So, what he's telling us is true... from a certain point of view.
After seeing the movie, the quick convo between Palpatine and Anakin basically shows that he is already maipulating Anakin to go against the Jedi Order.
Palpatine = Sidious.
Proof = Because I said so.
Lucad gives very large hints to it on the commentary for TPM
Watch it when Sidious first appears
The proof is there
Agreed. Palpi is Sidi. If after seeing AOTC you think differently then not even Episode 3 will change your mind.
"Then why did he send Darth Maul? If as you say, he no longer cared about Naboo. Surely there could've been more important tasks for his one-and-only Sith Apprentice."
Because the trade federation was his army at the time. If he wanted to continue to use them as puppets he had to help them get Naboo. It just turns out that by AOTC they have their trade franchise still....he must have bailed them out somehow.
Okay, Jedi Wanna Be.
counterpoints to your points.
A Sith Master can hide. That's what the sith do. They've been in hiding for 1000 years. I imagine you could get quite good with that amount of time for training to be passed on from sith to sith.
point 2. Palpatine was stuck in a hard spot. He couldn't very well say, "I think you should head back into the clutches of the trade federation" to Amidala.
What he said worked well enough though. Think about this. If the queen went back and fought for freedom and died in the process, talk about a sympathy vote for him as chancellor. Plus the conflict might bring the death of a few jedi and a lot of native Naboo life forms.
"This is an unexpected move for her." I simply think he was surprised to see that she had organized a revolt including a large gungan army.
3. He wouldn't clone himself. Unless he could create a clone without midichlorians, a clone of himself would only be competition. Wouldn't Sidious have needed to age the Palpatine clone? And why name the clone Palpatine? There are better names out there.
4. EU proof. Nope. Not for me. EU has some screwed up things in it. Like that huge green bunny running around with Han and Chewie in the marvel comics.
Making them different people serves no purpose. It's unecessary to the story. If George made them to be different people, it would be for surprise effect only. Otherwise it would be pointless.
In response to the very first post, Sid/Palps would act like two different people because they don't want people to think they're too different people. Sideous was probably genuinely surprised when he discovered Amidala was returning to Naboo, but you took it out of order. Palpatine tries to discourage her from going because he knows she will anyways. How can one gain support by sounding like you're letting them go to their death?
Original plan for Naboo.
As Darth Sidious, Palpatine got the Trade Federation to agree to a blockade invasion. The goal was to invade Naboo and get Padme to sign the treaty. Most likely afterwards, he'd have her killed. This would then support his claim of weak leadership in Valorum and allow him to call for a vote of "No Confidence." And then he would get the nomiation and the vote.
Since the Jedi got involved, he had to send Maul to get Padme and bring her back to Naboo. But when they escaped again, Palpatine decided to modify his plan. He used her as a tool to get the vote of "No Confidence" and the nomination and votes to become Surpreme Chancellor. Once that was accomplished, Nute could do with her what he wanted. Killing her would go the extra step in making the Trade Federation look bad, but having her live would suffice. He sent Maul to dispose of the two Jedi and continue to play his part of enforcer. What he didn't count on was that Padme would forge an alliance with the Gungans and would lead an assult on the Droid Army. Also that Maul would get cocky and lose his life after claiming Qui-gon Jinn's. And that Anakin would destroy the control ship.
While he lost, he also won. And the fact that Dooku wishes to become a Sith Lord, allowed him to get back on schedule with his plan for controlling everything.
Most. Debated. Topic. EVER!
I think you're probably right about that, JediMaster22.
Wait.. Palpatine isn't Sidious! Sidious just looks exactly like him, talks exactly like him, and is planning exactly like him! Oh my god! That's right, he's a clone! A clone I say!
Registered: May 02
Date Posted: 9:17am Subject: Shine, want to back it up with a bet?
I never let my mouth write cheques I cannot cover.
If you think I am 'weak-minded', and totally wrong, then back it up.
I'll wager $100 that I'm right. And I'm willing to wait the 2-3 years needed to prove it.
You still believe Palpatine is NOT Sidious? I'll take that bet if you are still up to it (and can find a way that nobody can back out)
Duh!! Jedi-Wanna-be is DEAD WRONG!!!
Palpatine is NOT a clone of Sidious! Sheez I find this concept SO repugnant! It's QUITE OBVIOUS that it's SIDIOUS WHO IS PALPATINE'S CLONE!!!!
When will you people get it straight!
He simply presents another point of view, why should he get bashed for that? He does raise some interesting points, and it WOULD be a bit of a shock if Palpatine turned out to be a clone of the Emperor. I'm not saying I beleive it, but in Lucas' world, ANYTHNG is possible.
Jedi-Wanna-Be, despite our past grievances I'm in complete agreement with you even insofar as Lucas' potential "lying" to his fans.
Lucas loves parallels:
-Destruction of clone ship/Death stars
-Way they're destroyed (young boy saving the day)
-Repeated "pit of death" that acquires Maul, Luke's hand, and Sidious
-Second film love stories between the rebellius man and stately woman
-Dooku/Anakin's turning to the dark side
-There are many more, but I think these are enough for the purposes of this post.
Now and more importantly, Lucas loves parallels across lines of good and evil, for instance:
-Anakin/Luke both getting lightninged
-Anakin/Luke: right hand chopped
-Luke's near transmutation into the dark side like his father
Thirdly, insofar as plot twists are concerned the new trilogy has been somewhat predictable, mainly because we know the future without knowing the past. That's also one of the reasons I think people are being more critical of these movies - Dooku turning to the dark side isn't close on the shock-o-meter to discovering Vader was Luke's dad. Regardless, that isn't what this post is about, it's about the relationship between Palpatine and Sidious.
Palpatine and Sidious are twins. One has been gifted in the ways of the force and the other has not. "Proposterous!" I hear you cry. Well, consider the parallels that Luke loves placing in Wars, and consider how this twinship will relate to the Luke/Leia twinship later. This would be the perfect foil: Luke's twin had been hidden from the dark side until the final climactic moment, Palpatine's twin will be hidden from the light side until the final climactic moment. The point of no turning back; the point of resolution.
Not only would this explain the enigma behind Palpatine/Sidious but it would also add a fierce parallel to the new criticized trilogy and create a much needed and completely unexpected plot twist, among the likes of the Star Wars of yore.
Think about how great this would be for Episode III. Palpatine agonizingly dies (hopefully to Yoda or Obi-Wan, think about the implications! Yoda and Obi are the two last Jedi who can save the universe, and in their legendary struggle they come so close and yet so far away to destroying the Empire before it's even fully realized!)
Or maybe Palpatine dies to another, perhaps Mace since he's had a lot of buildup. And, from the shadows, we see Sidious emerge and start the force-lightning, and as we watch Mace's face turn from life to death we realize the full extent of pain Luke was under in Return of the Jedi.
Also, this would be another great parallel:
Sidious loses family so takes family (Anakin).
Also, the complexity of Palpatine/Sidious' taking over the senate and forming the Empire seems too much for a single man to handle. This twin idea would bring some much needed rational and believability to the final movie.
Well, twins or clones. Either does the job.
Jedi Wannabe, your idea is clear and makes sense. Of course this really is the "most.debated.topic. EVER." I have never considered Sidious' surprise in the line "this move is unexpected for her...its too aggressive."
BUT, you lost me at EU.
Further, if Palps and Sidous are 2 different beings, wouldn't it have made more sense dramatically to reveal this as a surprise element at the end of E2 rather than the non-surprise of Dooku being a Sith? Imagine the boards if the very last scene of AOTC being between Palps and Sidious. THAT'S a cliffhanger.
Revealing they are separate people in the final act of the trilogy is just bad storytelling. (So come to think of it, GL would probably do that in the PT, which has its share of bad storytelling.)
Palpatine is Sidious.
If you don't believe me, use your ears. A friend of mine with better pitch pointed this out to me. At the end of episode one there is a celebration on Naboo. Palpatine is there. If you listen carefully that happy music you are hearing is actually the emporer's theme in MAJOR instead of MINOR.
That, is a big friggin clue.