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PROOF: Palpatine IS NOT Sidious. (lengthy proof)

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.

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  1. MadMc

    MadMc Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 7, 2002
    Ah, yes, of course Palpatine is Sidious..

    .. from a certain point of view .. :D
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    Also regarding the music. When we see Sidious, we hear the Emperor's Theme from ROTJ. But when we see Palps at Qui-gon's funeral at the end, we hear faint strains of it. Another clue.
  3. JediMaster22

    JediMaster22 Jedi Knight star 8

    Oct 15, 1999
    It is possible though Sidious is a clone of Palptine!

    Damn, Dooku is staring at me, it's scary!
  4. darth_pooh

    darth_pooh Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 1, 2002
    Wow, another post on whether Palpatine is Sidious? Does Someone have Poof that this is so? I personally believe that Sidious is my father: Yarael Poof. :p (lengthy poof)
  5. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Dec 26, 2000
    *sigh* Why do people always come up with the most complicated and unbelievable explanations for something that is not true?

    Palpatine IS Sidious. They're not clones, they're not twins, they're one and the same person. The fact that "they" appear totally different (and that Palpatine actually looks like a nice compassionate guy) is just because of Palpy's good acting skills. The Jedi will be blown away in Ep.III when he reveals himself and they realize that they had a Sith Master right under their noses and didn't recognize him.
  6. Razorback

    Razorback Jedi Youngling star 5

    Oct 2, 2001
    Word. What else needs to be said? Thread done. Move along now... nothing to see here. :D

  7. cable1996

    cable1996 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 4, 2001
    You know what I dont get?

    How come every one can agree that Senator Palpatine is the Emperor, and that Lord Sidious is the Emperor, yet people can't agree that Sidious is Palpatine?

    Any explanations on this?
  8. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    May 5, 2002
    The reason I'm not buying that Palpatine=Sidious is because it's just TOO obvious. GL wants us to be 100% positive that they are the same person and then shock the pants off of us in Episode III. Think about it, as someone else on this thread said, there have been no real surprises in the PT thus far...what better way to shock the fans then to reveal that they are two different people when everyone has been SO sure that they are one and the same?
  9. jeditheling

    jeditheling Jedi Youngling

    May 12, 2002
    palpateen = fox mulder
  10. cable1996

    cable1996 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 4, 2001
    Trust no one
  11. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 30, 2001
    Think about it this way. The main arguement that Palpatine isn't Sidious is because people think George is gonna try to shock us. But when you look at it, the majority of Star Wars fans would be severely disapointed if Palpatine wasn't Sidious. The disapointment would override the shock and would help prove (what others believe) that the prequels were a failure. If Palpatine wasn't Sidious then the Phantom Menace would have very little meaning in the trilogies. It would destroy the rule of two.

    If Palpatine is Sidious it answers many prequel trilogy questions. It adds depth to the Phantom Menace (a movie that needs as much depth as it can get). It will show how evil the Emperor can be. It will just help the flow of the trilogies.

    If Palpatine isn't Sidious it will shock many. Open a floodgate of questions. Totally destroy the sub plot of the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. And completely alienate more people then you could imagine. Not to mention disapoint many. I don't think that's how Lucas wants to end his trilogies.

  12. darth_pooh

    darth_pooh Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 1, 2002
    I still don't see the lengthy Poof! :p
  13. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    May 5, 2002
    First wouldn't destroy the rule of two because Palpatine wouldn't be skilled in the ways of the force if he was a clone or a twin of Sidious. As for it destroying TPM and the prequels...I don't think it would. It would add more to them, and make you see them in a different light than when you first watched them.
  14. JediScott

    JediScott Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 21, 2002
    george lucas=elvis

    He was sick of singing and wanted to make movies.

    Makes as much sense as palpatine and sidious being different people.
  15. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    May 5, 2002
    I'm gonna laugh so hard when Lucas does it in Episode III and everyone is totally crapping their pants over it.
  16. Jedi-Wanna-be

    Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 9, 2002
    I'd like to thank all of you who have disagreed with me so far, and have furnished cogent and reasonable evidence for why I am wrong.

    Let me re-state the few points I feel have not been adequately answered, though.

    1. Yoda said the Dark Side is hard to see; not IMPOSSIBLE. I simply cannot accept that Yoda and the entire jedi council would not recognize a Sith Master standing in front of them.

    Jedi are able to sense the Force being strong with non-jedi. (IE. Vader chasing Luke in the Trench of the Death Star; Qui-Gonn with Anakin.) And Luke was very inexperienced when he sensed the Dark Side on Dagobah. A full-blown Jedi Master who has lived for 900 years like Yoda, must surely sense a Sith Master when face-to-face.

    I can believe they cannot locate Sidious on Coruscant; or even in the same 'city'. But face to face? Not bloody Likely!

    2. The difference in knowledge and reactions between Palpatine / Sidious, in reacting to Queen Amidala's decision to go back to Coruscant.

    Sidious had absolutely no reason to 'fake surprise' when talking to Viceroy Nute. His surprise was genuine. Palpatine's effort to keep the Queen on Coruscant is for all appearances genuine. You cannot claim it's false simply because it supports a theory.

    And again I return to THE CLINCHER: Sidious wanted the Queen to Sign the Treaty! At the time she heads back to Naboo, Palpatine is not yet Chancellor. If he was Sidious, he still needs her to sign; not dead. He would warn the Trade Viceroy she is coming!!!!
    Sidious would want her captured immediately. He would have said... "The Queen is on her way back to Naboo. Capture her ship as soon as it arrives."

    Not a single person can refute or explain this. At this point in TPM, Sidious still needs that treaty signed. He has not yet decided to kill her. That does not come until later on. He NEEDS the Queen captured!

    The fact that Sidious does not warn Nute that the Queen is on her way, shows he is not aware she's left Coruscant. But Palpatine knew. (I'd like to say: it was at this point in the film, while viewing it for the 7th time, I yelled in the theatre my surprise. I realized then and there, Palpatine is not Sidious. 2.5 years ago.)
    Since Palpatine has CRUCIAL knowledge that Sidious does NOT, they cannot be the same person. There is absolutely no plausible reason why Sidious would not have warned Viceroy Nute. Look what happened because they were caught by surprise.

    Remember, people, GL shocked and surprised the entire world when he revealed Vader was Luke's father. That was after the explicit statement by Obi-Wan that Vader killed him.

    I feel George has already decided on the plot twist that reveals Sidious / Palpatine as Clones or Twins. (Thanks, Vider, I never considered the Twins idea. ;) ) And I think he is going to wait until Ep. III.

    For those who argue from having seen AOTC that It was proper movie to reveal it in if I am correct, I say: We did not 'meet' the emperor until ROTJ. Prior to that climax, it was always his subordinates.

    Remember, Sidious is a Master manipulator. And a devious self-serving coward. IN TPM, It's his young apprentice Darth Maul. In AOTC, it's the fallen Jedi Dooku / Tyranus. In Ep. III, it will be Palpatine revealed as a stooge.

    I think Vider is correct. The Jedi will suspect Palpatine. I think the AOTC makes them wonder about cloning of Jedi.

    Remember, people, I have presented compelling arguments for Sidious / Palpatine not being the same person. What have you presented to prove they are?

    "Because I say so." uh huh, ok.

    "Because says so."
    Hey, remember the 'lie' in ANH? If a Jedi Master can Lie about Vader's true identity, because it serves GL's plot purposes, why wouldn't he do the same for AOTC/ EP. III?

    "Because they look / talk/ sound the same."
    Circular reasoning... they're clones or identical twins.

    "Because the actor / screen credits are the same."
    Again, circular reasoning. A non sequitur.

    I enjoy a good discussion. Even when we disagree
  17. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    May 5, 2002
    You know, I've noticed someone said that it says Palpatine=Sidious in the Star Wars databank, so I went there and read the summaries of both characters. Not once does it even mention any connection between the two.
  18. Jedi-Wanna-be

    Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 9, 2002
    The one and only reason anyone ASSUMES Palpatine and Sidious are the same?

    IN the credits for TPM, The same actor plays Sidious and Palpatine.


    Period. That's it.

    There is NOTHING official from Lucasfilm to say Palpatine is Sidious. They have separate bios. Only the Actor is the same.

    The Characters can be different, but portrayed by the same actor easily.

    I mean, come on. Look at all the truly trashy films based on 'twins'.
    Jean-Claude Van Damme did it.
    Jet Li did it.
    Jackie Chan did it.
    The list goes on...
    My point is, the same actor is often used to portray twins.

    So... why not clones or twins here?
  19. Geh007

    Geh007 Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 10, 2002
    You say our proof is circumstantial. So's yours. "He can't be sidious, because he could be a twin!"
    Think about it. Sure, sidious didn't tell Nute Gunray about it. Why would he want to? This way he gets to come and look all official at the Naboo victory parade, Hey look, there's good ol' chancellor palpatine! Good thing we got rid of that other guy! Palps doesn't really care about Gunray and his federation. Padme is no threat to him (well that's a big mistake...) And look where that got him, in AOTC Gunray was forced to turn to count Dooku and his seperatists, etc.
  20. Jedi-Wanna-be

    Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 9, 2002
    he didnt tell Nute, cuz he didnt want to?
    So he could look like a hero?

    News flash, bud.

    When he was talking to Nute (if palpatine was sidious), HE WAS NOT YET CHANCELLOR. He could've lost the election. At that point in the plot, at that precise moment, Sidious still needed her to sign the treaty! So, he needed her captured!! So, he would have to tell NUTE!!!

    Geez, I can't do all your thinking for you every time. Get it right next time.
  21. Geh007

    Geh007 Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 10, 2002
    For someone who seems to think so little, you sure are full of yourself.
    Palps has this whole thing planned out. This isn't some spur of the moment plot. Just because he isn't chancellor yet, he knows he will be shortly. I don't remember the precise details of the treaty, but I'm pretty sure it was relatively insignificant in relation to his real goals anyhow.
  22. Jedi-Wanna-be

    Jedi-Wanna-be Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 9, 2002
    OK, lets compare what you say with what Sidious says...

    "treaty not that important", you say.

    Sidious says...

    "Has she signed the treaty yet?"
    "I want that treaty signed!"
    When Nute says he cannot find her...
    "I am sending Darth Maul" to find her.
    To Darth Maul...
    "Move against the Jedi first; then you will have no trouble taking the Queen to Naboo to sign the treaty."

    Gee, I guess you're right. Sidious did not want the treaty signed. (snicker snicker)

    I guess we saw different films. (snicker)
  23. Jumbo_Fett

    Jumbo_Fett Jedi Youngling star 1

    Apr 6, 2002
    Having Palpatine not end up being the Emperor from the OT would be the same as having Anakin not end up being Vader from the OT. If you're looking for ways to have Palpatine NOT be the Emperor, you're looking for ways to ruin the story arc of the entire six-movie story. The PT is partly ABOUT how Palpatine takes control of the galaxy right under everyone's noses. Don't you get this? Or are you too busy hoping to drag Star Wars into a muckety-muck of contrived plot-twists like a corny soap opera?
  24. Geh007

    Geh007 Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 10, 2002
    Wow, you're right. Like when Tarkin said he wouldn't blow up Alderaan, he really meant it too, right? You really need to stop being so naive. If you believe everything you hear... hey, I'm george lucas.
    Of COURSE sidious told gunray he wanted the treaty signed. What was he gonna do, say "I don't care about naboo, you guys can pack up and go home now."? He didn?t care about the treaty, but he DID need Gunray to get pissed and invade, so the Chancellor would do nothing (which he knew he would), get ousted, and Palps would be set. If he didn't push Gunray into moving from a blockade into a full scale invasion, the Naboo wouldn't have been so frantic, Valorum wouldn't have been impeached, etc.
  25. Darth_Troy

    Darth_Troy Jedi Youngling

    Jun 2, 2001
    I Agree that Palpaltine isn't Sidious... It seems so right now after reading what Jedi-Wanna-be pointed out to me! All Sidious had to do was make a clone before TFM, and stick him in Politics. Simple! and i don't think in TFM that sidious kept changing clothes every our just to talk to the senate, then the Trade federation, then the queen, then the trade federation, then the senate again, then Darth Maul, then the queen again...back to the Trade federation....and so on...ALL IN ONE DAY!! yeah right. if that happened...he'd be even worse than the Amidala.

    you gotta totally agree with Jedi-Wanna-be! most of you are just to stuborn and... well, i'll stick with stuborn. Just expand your mind for once and don't beleive the very first thing you think! Lucas is gonna trick you...AGAIN!

    93 hours, 6 minutes until i see AOTC!!!

    Go Leafs Go!

    Darth Troy
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