Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.
Ah, yes, of course Palpatine is Sidious..
.. from a certain point of view ..
Also regarding the music. When we see Sidious, we hear the Emperor's Theme from ROTJ. But when we see Palps at Qui-gon's funeral at the end, we hear faint strains of it. Another clue.
It is possible though Sidious is a clone of Palptine!
Damn, Dooku is staring at me, it's scary!
Wow, another post on whether Palpatine is Sidious? Does Someone have Poof that this is so? I personally believe that Sidious is my father: Yarael Poof. (lengthy poof)
*sigh* Why do people always come up with the most complicated and unbelievable explanations for something that is not true?
Palpatine IS Sidious. They're not clones, they're not twins, they're one and the same person. The fact that "they" appear totally different (and that Palpatine actually looks like a nice compassionate guy) is just because of Palpy's good acting skills. The Jedi will be blown away in Ep.III when he reveals himself and they realize that they had a Sith Master right under their noses and didn't recognize him.
Word. What else needs to be said? Thread done. Move along now... nothing to see here.
You know what I dont get?
How come every one can agree that Senator Palpatine is the Emperor, and that Lord Sidious is the Emperor, yet people can't agree that Sidious is Palpatine?
Any explanations on this?
The reason I'm not buying that Palpatine=Sidious is because it's just TOO obvious. GL wants us to be 100% positive that they are the same person and then shock the pants off of us in Episode III. Think about it, as someone else on this thread said, there have been no real surprises in the PT thus far...what better way to shock the fans then to reveal that they are two different people when everyone has been SO sure that they are one and the same?
palpateen = fox mulder
Trust no one
Think about it this way. The main arguement that Palpatine isn't Sidious is because people think George is gonna try to shock us. But when you look at it, the majority of Star Wars fans would be severely disapointed if Palpatine wasn't Sidious. The disapointment would override the shock and would help prove (what others believe) that the prequels were a failure. If Palpatine wasn't Sidious then the Phantom Menace would have very little meaning in the trilogies. It would destroy the rule of two.
If Palpatine is Sidious it answers many prequel trilogy questions. It adds depth to the Phantom Menace (a movie that needs as much depth as it can get). It will show how evil the Emperor can be. It will just help the flow of the trilogies.
If Palpatine isn't Sidious it will shock many. Open a floodgate of questions. Totally destroy the sub plot of the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. And completely alienate more people then you could imagine. Not to mention disapoint many. I don't think that's how Lucas wants to end his trilogies.
I still don't see the lengthy Poof!
First off...it wouldn't destroy the rule of two because Palpatine wouldn't be skilled in the ways of the force if he was a clone or a twin of Sidious. As for it destroying TPM and the prequels...I don't think it would. It would add more to them, and make you see them in a different light than when you first watched them.
He was sick of singing and wanted to make movies.
Makes as much sense as palpatine and sidious being different people.
I'm gonna laugh so hard when Lucas does it in Episode III and everyone is totally crapping their pants over it.
I'd like to thank all of you who have disagreed with me so far, and have furnished cogent and reasonable evidence for why I am wrong.
Let me re-state the few points I feel have not been adequately answered, though.
1. Yoda said the Dark Side is hard to see; not IMPOSSIBLE. I simply cannot accept that Yoda and the entire jedi council would not recognize a Sith Master standing in front of them.
Jedi are able to sense the Force being strong with non-jedi. (IE. Vader chasing Luke in the Trench of the Death Star; Qui-Gonn with Anakin.) And Luke was very inexperienced when he sensed the Dark Side on Dagobah. A full-blown Jedi Master who has lived for 900 years like Yoda, must surely sense a Sith Master when face-to-face.
I can believe they cannot locate Sidious on Coruscant; or even in the same 'city'. But face to face? Not bloody Likely!
2. The difference in knowledge and reactions between Palpatine / Sidious, in reacting to Queen Amidala's decision to go back to Coruscant.
Sidious had absolutely no reason to 'fake surprise' when talking to Viceroy Nute. His surprise was genuine. Palpatine's effort to keep the Queen on Coruscant is for all appearances genuine. You cannot claim it's false simply because it supports a theory.
And again I return to THE CLINCHER: Sidious wanted the Queen to Sign the Treaty! At the time she heads back to Naboo, Palpatine is not yet Chancellor. If he was Sidious, he still needs her to sign; not dead. He would warn the Trade Viceroy she is coming!!!!
Sidious would want her captured immediately. He would have said... "The Queen is on her way back to Naboo. Capture her ship as soon as it arrives."
Not a single person can refute or explain this. At this point in TPM, Sidious still needs that treaty signed. He has not yet decided to kill her. That does not come until later on. He NEEDS the Queen captured!
The fact that Sidious does not warn Nute that the Queen is on her way, shows he is not aware she's left Coruscant. But Palpatine knew. (I'd like to say: it was at this point in the film, while viewing it for the 7th time, I yelled in the theatre my surprise. I realized then and there, Palpatine is not Sidious. 2.5 years ago.)
Since Palpatine has CRUCIAL knowledge that Sidious does NOT, they cannot be the same person. There is absolutely no plausible reason why Sidious would not have warned Viceroy Nute. Look what happened because they were caught by surprise.
Remember, people, GL shocked and surprised the entire world when he revealed Vader was Luke's father. That was after the explicit statement by Obi-Wan that Vader killed him.
I feel George has already decided on the plot twist that reveals Sidious / Palpatine as Clones or Twins. (Thanks, Vider, I never considered the Twins idea. ) And I think he is going to wait until Ep. III.
For those who argue from having seen AOTC that It was proper movie to reveal it in if I am correct, I say: We did not 'meet' the emperor until ROTJ. Prior to that climax, it was always his subordinates.
Remember, Sidious is a Master manipulator. And a devious self-serving coward. IN TPM, It's his young apprentice Darth Maul. In AOTC, it's the fallen Jedi Dooku / Tyranus. In Ep. III, it will be Palpatine revealed as a stooge.
I think Vider is correct. The Jedi will suspect Palpatine. I think the AOTC makes them wonder about cloning of Jedi.
Remember, people, I have presented compelling arguments for Sidious / Palpatine not being the same person. What have you presented to prove they are?
"Because I say so." uh huh, ok.
"Because StarWars.com says so."
Hey, remember the 'lie' in ANH? If a Jedi Master can Lie about Vader's true identity, because it serves GL's plot purposes, why wouldn't he do the same for AOTC/ EP. III?
"Because they look / talk/ sound the same."
Circular reasoning... they're clones or identical twins.
"Because the actor / screen credits are the same."
Again, circular reasoning. A non sequitur.
I enjoy a good discussion. Even when we disagree
You know, I've noticed someone said that it says Palpatine=Sidious in the Star Wars databank, so I went there and read the summaries of both characters. Not once does it even mention any connection between the two.
The one and only reason anyone ASSUMES Palpatine and Sidious are the same?
IN the credits for TPM, The same actor plays Sidious and Palpatine.
THAT IS THE ONLY 'PROOF' THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON; THE SAME ACTOR WAS USED.
Period. That's it.
There is NOTHING official from Lucasfilm to say Palpatine is Sidious. They have separate bios. Only the Actor is the same.
The Characters can be different, but portrayed by the same actor easily.
I mean, come on. Look at all the truly trashy films based on 'twins'.
Jean-Claude Van Damme did it.
Jet Li did it.
Jackie Chan did it.
The list goes on...
My point is, the same actor is often used to portray twins.
So... why not clones or twins here?
You say our proof is circumstantial. So's yours. "He can't be sidious, because he could be a twin!"
Think about it. Sure, sidious didn't tell Nute Gunray about it. Why would he want to? This way he gets to come and look all official at the Naboo victory parade, Hey look, there's good ol' chancellor palpatine! Good thing we got rid of that other guy! Palps doesn't really care about Gunray and his federation. Padme is no threat to him (well that's a big mistake...) And look where that got him, in AOTC Gunray was forced to turn to count Dooku and his seperatists, etc.
he didnt tell Nute, cuz he didnt want to?
So he could look like a hero?
News flash, bud.
When he was talking to Nute (if palpatine was sidious), HE WAS NOT YET CHANCELLOR. He could've lost the election. At that point in the plot, at that precise moment, Sidious still needed her to sign the treaty! So, he needed her captured!! So, he would have to tell NUTE!!!
Geez, I can't do all your thinking for you every time. Get it right next time.
For someone who seems to think so little, you sure are full of yourself.
Palps has this whole thing planned out. This isn't some spur of the moment plot. Just because he isn't chancellor yet, he knows he will be shortly. I don't remember the precise details of the treaty, but I'm pretty sure it was relatively insignificant in relation to his real goals anyhow.
OK, lets compare what you say with what Sidious says...
"treaty not that important", you say.
"Has she signed the treaty yet?"
"I want that treaty signed!"
When Nute says he cannot find her...
"I am sending Darth Maul" to find her.
To Darth Maul...
"Move against the Jedi first; then you will have no trouble taking the Queen to Naboo to sign the treaty."
Gee, I guess you're right. Sidious did not want the treaty signed. (snicker snicker)
"I WANT THAT TREATY SIGNED!!!"
I guess we saw different films. (snicker)
Having Palpatine not end up being the Emperor from the OT would be the same as having Anakin not end up being Vader from the OT. If you're looking for ways to have Palpatine NOT be the Emperor, you're looking for ways to ruin the story arc of the entire six-movie story. The PT is partly ABOUT how Palpatine takes control of the galaxy right under everyone's noses. Don't you get this? Or are you too busy hoping to drag Star Wars into a muckety-muck of contrived plot-twists like a corny soap opera?
Wow, you're right. Like when Tarkin said he wouldn't blow up Alderaan, he really meant it too, right? You really need to stop being so naive. If you believe everything you hear... hey, I'm george lucas.
Of COURSE sidious told gunray he wanted the treaty signed. What was he gonna do, say "I don't care about naboo, you guys can pack up and go home now."? He didn?t care about the treaty, but he DID need Gunray to get pissed and invade, so the Chancellor would do nothing (which he knew he would), get ousted, and Palps would be set. If he didn't push Gunray into moving from a blockade into a full scale invasion, the Naboo wouldn't have been so frantic, Valorum wouldn't have been impeached, etc.
I Agree that Palpaltine isn't Sidious... It seems so right now after reading what Jedi-Wanna-be pointed out to me! All Sidious had to do was make a clone before TFM, and stick him in Politics. Simple! and i don't think in TFM that sidious kept changing clothes every our just to talk to the senate, then the Trade federation, then the queen, then the trade federation, then the senate again, then Darth Maul, then the queen again...back to the Trade federation....and so on...ALL IN ONE DAY!! yeah right. if that happened...he'd be even worse than the Amidala.
you gotta totally agree with Jedi-Wanna-be! most of you are just to stuborn and... well, i'll stick with stuborn. Just expand your mind for once and don't beleive the very first thing you think! Lucas is gonna trick you...AGAIN!
93 hours, 6 minutes until i see AOTC!!!
Go Leafs Go!