Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.
yo dude, no need to get agreesive...
i think u shd take a step back and look at yourself....
...and you should take a step back and look at all the evidence.
but u seem to think u have all the answers....
you dont. only george does. and you'll find out in ep3. end of story
Yes, George does have all the answers. That is why I believe him when he says that they are the same person.
Seriously, I genuinely want to know what more evidence you need.
we all know GL changes his mind at the drop of a hat.
he is there to entertain us. and im sure a few white lies here and there can help the cause.
as for evidence... jedi wanna be has provided enough, so i suggest you read it.
even then i'm sure you'll rant and rave about "George said blah blah blah"
No, there is no evidence to suggest they are not the same. The original post was based on his own interpretation and all the points have been refuted in this thread.
GL, AT MOST, will make an occasional ambiguous statement. But to LIE to the fans will destroy his credibility.
You have to look at all the evidence and come to a conclusion based on that, NOT what you would like to see.
I hope you are not a Detective...
WELL I REMEMBER BACK WHEN VADER TOLD LUKE HE WAS HIS FATHER, PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT VADER WAS LIEING...Also in AOTC the last few pages do make a case for them being 2 different people.... PLEASE someone post the last few pages of the novil so you people can read it...it says that when sidius and count dooku are talking the very next pargraph say "MEANWILE" and then talks about palpatine watching the clone troops being loaded...so that is a fact that they are 2 different people.....SOMEONE please POST the last 3 pages of the novil....remember the word MEANWILE to link the to time frames together......
palpatine is sidious.c'mon its so obvious.george gives you clues galore in phantom during the funeral,mace asks yoda:which one was destroyed the master or apprentice?the camera pans to palapatine and lingers on him for a few seconds.
I think that Kitser is really a young Han-Solo.
Not arguing for or against, but wouldn't the theory of Senator Palpatine being a CLONE add a different meaning to the film's title?
Oh yeah the novelization, of course. Then I guessed Owen is really Obiwan's brother. Don't take the book for granted, could have been a mistake. Replace meanwhile by Later and there, back on discussion ! It depends what you choose to llok at, but you have George and McCallum saying they are the same, and the book by Salvatore possibly stating otherwise....
I prefer to discuss to what can be interpret from the movies and ignore both the book and what George and McCallum are saying...
Looking back at TPM, here's what I noticed. Palpatine wasn't lying to Maul and Nute. He has the nomination, but not the vote yet. Having her sign the treaty and possibly Maul killing her, will go to show the Senate that the TF are deadly serious and would give him the vote. As it turns out, it's not neccssary as he wins without the treaty. He's always thinking ahead, looking at all possible angles. What he didn't count on was the alliance with the Gungans, Maul getting cocky and Anakin destroying the control ship.
The balance in the Force is the power of the light side weaking as the dark side is disrupting the balance.
As to sensing the Jedi/Sith, let's take a look back.
1. In AOTC, Anakin senses Obi-wan when he enters the apartment. These two men have been around each other for 10 years at this point. Both have trained and grown in the Force. They know who each other is and can feel their presense. Obi-wan and Qui-gon had that bond over the years. When they meet again in ANH, they can feel each other. They cannot conceal their presense anymore, nor have they for the last 20 years.
2. Vader is standing in front of Leia aboard the Devesator and the Death Star. And I assume have meet a few times in the Senate on Courscant. Neither time does he feel the Force comming from her. He is impressed by her resistance to the probe, but assumes she is strong of will.
3. Luke cannot feel the destruction of Alderaan like Obi-wan did. He is not open to the Force yet. After his brief training aboard the Falcon, he can hear Obi-wan tell him to run upon his death. When Obi-wan tells him to use the Force, Vader starts to feel him and his strength in the Force. On Dagobah, Luke cannot feel Yoda's presense. As he begins his training, Luke starts to detect the dark side cave. By the time he faces Vader, he can feel him and the Force. This bond carries over to ROTJ.
4. Palpatine can feel Luke grow strong as he undergoes the training, yet he cannot sense him arriving aboard Shuttle Tydrium. Vader can.
5. Leia doesn't feel Luke until he reaches out to her. Their sibling bond and the bond through the Force allows that.
6. Both Jinn and Kenobi can feel a disturbance in the Force, but neither one felt Maul's presense at Tatooine or on Naboo.
7. Obi-wan doesn't feel the dark side emminating from Dooku, but doesn't trust him either.
In conclusion, we've only see the Skywalker line and Obi-wan feel each other through the Force.
Palp - Sid
Its quite obvious that GL is trying to build up commotion on this topic. he ius putting it right in your faces. A true jedi can feel the force and use his instincts. What did Qui gon say? be weary of the future but not at the expense of the present Moment. For now Palps is Sidious. Let yourself believe it since this is all you have at this time. Let the force ride you and you shall see the path that has been chosen. Its quite a twist when the truth is revealed and exposed to what is really going on........... Wanna be is wrong(although quite the intelligent one, he is thinking down the wrong path but the rest of you are not using the force). Ask yourself this question and combined with a hidden clue you will find the answer. Why does Sidious want the Queen to sign the treaty? (why no one has asked this question is curious) One key element has also been overlooked and missed apparently and its in one of the original 3 films. This and this alone will give you the final clue needed to unravel this Mystery . For that is the Quest of the Jedi to find.......
... May the force be with you.....
I think believing that Sidious and Palpatine are two different people is a lot like believing in God:
It sounds good on paper, but you'll have a hard time finding any physical evidence for it, and if you introduce the idea to a non-believer they'll think you're crazy. Still, they sure do like to push their ideas on the rest of us.
It's been implied but I'll directly state it.
If Palpatine is Sidious Yoda's character will be severely degraded. Like people have said, how could he look Palpatine straight in the eyes on numerous occasions and not at least SUSPECT something? Yoda's character has been built up throughout the wisdom he gives in Episode 1 and the battle talent he shows in Episode 2. It would be a shame if both were nullified in 3 as a result of his "lack of vision" as Sidious (not necessarily Palpatine) would say. =]
Yoda DOES suspect. In TPM members of the Jedi Council (including Mace) give Yoda dirty looks when talking about how they don't think the Sith could have returned without them knowing. This implies that Yoda disagrees with them. And in AOTC Yoda always talks about how the darkside is growing, and if you pay attention with the idea in mind that Yoda is suspicious tha something is up, you will see it. Yoda gives Palpatine a dirty look. Watch for it. It's all subtle, but could be expanded upon in EpIII. The story hasn't been fully told yet.
this thread is complete rubbish!..
There is NO QUESTION that Palpatine (aka emperor Palpatine) IS Darth Sidious..
There is just no question about it..
I just posted this on the "I have just seen it thread"
If those are the two topics Yoda and Palpatine discuss in his office(assassination and the seperatists)...did you see anything that could back up this conjecture?:
Maybe Yoda wanted to see Palpatine's responses to those specific topics because:
1. Yoda senses that Palpatine organized the assassinations to get the Senators scared so they'd vote him powers.
2. Yoda senses that the increasing power of the seperatists may be due indirectly to Palpatines conniving.
I don't mean that it would be obvious to Yoda...but maybe he senses a little "force quiver" whenever Palpy gets onto those topics...
....could be the reason he gives Palpy that weird sidelong glance, eh?
Maybe the only reason the jedi are in his office is to provide backup for yoda as he scans the office, hmmmm....
and guess what? people are saying that the scene is really intense. The jedi may be in there to see what is up. And yoda does give Palpatine (could it be Sidious? he he) that really strange look.
I think this post will soon be dead as a doornail - if we can figure out what Yoda is doing?
You let the simple undermine your usefullness. For knowing and accepting the simple will lead you to the cliff where your doom insues. The simple is also brought upon to trick the simple minded and staged as trickery to confuse the intelligent, whereas he shall over analyze. Use the force and watch the entire saga again... the true Jedi can find the asnwer to this question before III.........
Although I appriciate your cander and long winded sentences, the truth is rather obvious.
You need not watch the entire trilogy to understand the obvious.
Please go to AOTC, and all of this will become clear that PALPATINE IS SIDIOUS!!
You both mention a scene from AOTC. I have not seen the film yet, but am intrigued.
Can you please expand on this for me? I'd like to know what to look for when watching the film. Heck, I've read so many spoilers, 1 more won't degrade my enjoyment of the film.
Also, is there anything else in the relationship / interactions between Palpatine and the Jedi Council that suggest some sneaky goings-on? Either that Yodo or the Jedi are suspicious?
And does anyone know of anything in the behaviour of any Jedi to suggest a traitor?
Thanks in advance. Looking forward to reading all your comments
The scene in question is when Palpatine is trying to convince Mace and Yoda that Obi-Wan should protect the queen..
Yoda gives a strained look because in Palpatines description, he is very creepy and candid..
Not to mention that Palpatine and Anakin have a good long conversation where Palpatine claims he will soon be stronger then Yoda!...
And Anakin gives his alligence to him (cough cough VADER AND THE EMPEROR!)
And the Jedi Traitor is the Count...
Why is it acceptable that the Jedi Council traitor is someone we haven't seen before? That almost makes it too convenient.
It's almost like, hey, let's get a traitor in here. Well, just write one in. A traitor should be someone we have come to trust.
All these blatant comments from Lucas that Palpatine and Sidious are the same guy really confuse me. I wish he wouldn't say things like that so this issue would be more clear.
I don't think he says that they are the same person, he gives hints, like saying that Palpatine is the Phantom Menace or having Sidious talking to Maul on Palpatine's apartment balcony. I don't think a senator would be a willing host to a couple of sith, unless he was one of the two.
Let us suppose that Palpatine is Sidious, without cloning.
I can only envisage it if this is part of Ep.III:
Yoda talks to Obi-Wan after Sidious is revealed as Palpatine...
Obi: Master, why did the council not realize who he was?
Yoda: Hard to see, the dark side. Prideful, we have become. Too long we waited, thinking Sith extinct.
Obi: But master, did you not sense he was Sith?
Yoda: Sensed something, I did. And suspect him, I did. Told the council, I did. Believe me, they did not.
Told you, I did, to train Anakin not.
Agree with his training, I did not. But council did not listen. Now, Sith he has become. Now, matters are worse.
Obi: yes, master. I'm sorry. What do we do now?
This is the only way I can see to reconcile the situation. Yodo must have at least supsected, and been ignored. Otherwise, and Verdi says, he is marginalized unacceptably.