PROOF: Palpatine IS NOT Sidious. (lengthy proof)

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jedi-Wanna-be, May 12, 2002.

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  1. dash101 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 4
    seriously guys...


    watch AOTC..




    You won't have any questions after that.
    I mean its Punch u in the face obvious who sidious is!


    -dash101
  2. Lord_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 3
    darth_pooh, if Yoda and/or the council already suspect Palpatine to anything you suggested in your last post, then how does Sidious win in Ep3?

  3. AndyTiger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 1
    JediWannaBe. I firmly believe this is what will happen in EpIII (the Yoda/Obi-Wan conversation) You definately hit the nail on the head.
  4. Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2002
    star 6
    Palps is Sid!! No doubt about it. And the Yoda thing, lets all remember that the guy was RIGHT in TPM. All the kids in the audience would want the Council to let Anakin be trained, cos they think that Anakin was some sweet little kid who has no connection to Darth Vader. The rest of us who know better know that Yoda was right, and the Council was wrong, but they still allowed Anakin to be trained. This also backs up the made-up scene posted earlier. Yoda may have suspicions about Palps character, but since the Sith were extinct about 150 years before he was born he would have no idea how to detect one of them.
  5. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    Lord Sidious, I am going to go out on a limb here - and this really belongs in the EPIII conjecture threads...but -

    I think that EPIII will begin with the Jedi returning to military confinement. Indeed I think that Palpatine will so embarrass them in front of the Senate, that they will lose all ranking and be hunted down for being completely ineffectual. In fact, I think they will be made scapegoats somehow for starting the clone wars.

    The Jedi don't catch onto this - although they suspect - and are drawn away and into the war before they get to act.

    My $.02
  6. Darth_SpiderZord Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    I never let my mouth write cheques I cannot cover.

    If you think I am 'weak-minded', and totally wrong, then back it up.

    I'll wager $100 that I'm right. And I'm willing to wait the 2-3 years needed to prove it.


    I have another theory:

    Jedi-Wanna-be = George Lucas

    George - you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to scam money from the forums :D

    No wait, it's George's clone who has fallen on hard times and still has access to the next script! ;)
  7. vampire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Boy am i about to step in it.

    First,

    Yes, Palp IS Sid. No question but....
    -----------
    MANDALORIAN Said.... :
    So, you are basically saying:

    1. George Lucas is a liar and a charlatan who can just talk complete rubbish ....
    ---------

    Yes, G.L is a liar. NO question.
    12 episodes... 9 episodes... nawww make it 6... pffftttt

    Flame away, Vampire's are fire proof.
  8. Lord_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 3
    Lets look at it from the Jedi's present perspective. The only things they know about the Sith is that they killed one during TPM and there is only a master and an apprentice. They do not know if the dead Sith is a master or an apprentice, but they do know that there is another out there. Now, another conflict has occurred. If I remember correctly from the spoilers (I have not seen the movie yet :( ), the Jedi are quick to presume that the other Sith is involved in creating the dispute. Then during a battle, it is obvious that Dooku is that Sith. So then, why would they suspect Palpatine of being a Sith at any time during AOTC?
  9. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    if palpatine was a clone of sidious, he would also have force powers, and since he's quite obviously an evil bastard, the way he licks his lips and stuff, close up on palpatine at the funeral as mace and yoda talk about 'which one was he? the master or the apprentice?' palpatine would be so drenched in the dark side that not only would it be useless for sidious to have the clone, but also dangerous to himself.
    you don't need proof on this subject when you have logic.
  10. Darth_Rambo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    Maybe John Travolta is Sidious, and in EP. 3 he shoots Marvin in the Face. Then kills Mace Windu. Ties in the whole Pulp Fiction thing!
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda might suspect something is up, but thinks it's Dooku when he sees him fighting Obi-wan and Anakin. Then his suspicion shifts over to him. This makes it all the tragic when they learn the truth in episode 3.
  12. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    i must say, the numerous references to sam jackson's other movies are crackin me up today.
    good one, darth rambo!
  13. MadMc Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    Come on people, how could anyone be so stupid not to suspect Palpy being the Sith Master after all these years??

    I mean, he has to invest much time in training his apprentices, planning, training himself so he doesn't get lame, washing his robe, etc. !
    And besides that he's senator then supreme chancellor, which basically is a full time job!
    And people should buy that?
    He's running around in EP1 putting his cloak on and of all the time just to make holocalls?
    Dooku and Maul get close enough to him to see UNDER the cloak, so he's just wearing it for the audience, though they already KNOW who he really is?
    This is so lame Superman-puts-his-glasses-on-and-noone-recognizes-him!
    And lets the Council and their investigation over ten years look STUPID!
    YES, there is no proof that they are not the same person, BUT all you have as proof are music hints, camera pans, hidden smiles, the fact that they're the same actor and quotes from George and Rick.
    They are known to lie! Hughes Jackman anyone? 9 Episodes anyone?
    How is Lucas pulling this of without everyone slapping their foreheads?

    OK, thanks for listening, I'll take my pills now and already feel better.

    I understood this forum is for discussing and speculating ideas, even if they are strange without "Accept it!"ing or "I have proof!"ing to an extend that it's not funny anymore. Anyone daring to post a different idea or opinion from the fanboy mainstream is getting flamed to doomsday by people who act like already having seen EP3.

    Why can't someone just say, "ok, I think you're wrong, but go ahead, it might be interessting", instead the bashers hang around killing every new thought thus killing the discussion.

    STAR WARS has always been about fun and fantasy, go see Star Trek for facts and proofs!

    Cheers,
    Mac
  14. Geh007 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 1
    Jesus Christ.
    First of all: Jedi Wannabe. Stop being such an ass. I have no problem with you blatantly ignoring our evidence and repeating yourself over and over; I do get pissed off when you insult us and act all smug ("I'll be expecting your apologies", etc)

    Do you need everything explained to you, handed out on a silver platter? That "essential" dialogue you proposed for Obi Wan and Yoda was laughable. Most people should be able to figure out for themselves that the Jedi didn't investigate Palps enough, and that Yoda wasn't sure of him, simply by Yoda's expressions in AOTC and the events that take place.

    First of all, someone mentioned how the Jedi could not investigate palps since he wanted to make the clone army, and thus find him out as a Sith. They had no reason to suspect him. Palpatine does a good job of seeming dead set AGAINST forming the army. He cleverly manipulates the other senators to grant him power, while seeming like he himself did nothing.
    "'Unfortunately, the debate is not over," Bail Organa said. "The Senate will never approve the use of the army before the seperatists attack. And by then, it will likely be too late."
    "This is a crisis," Mas Ameda dared interject. "The Senate must vote the Chancellor emergency powers! He could then approve the use of the clones."
    Palpatine rocked back at the suggestion, seeming profoundly shaken. "But what Senator would have the courage to propose such a radical amendment?" he asked hesitantly"

    From the AOTC book. He clearly is trying to pretend he didn't intend to form an army, but even so he isn't shying away from the idea.
  15. BLKNIGHT18 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2001
    star 4
    a lot of people need to calm down in the thread.

    Jedi-wanna-be, I think that what bothers you and others that agree with you is that Palpatine being Sidious makes the Jedi look really inept when their arch-enemy is right under their noses the whole time.

    But this is exactly the case, the Jedi are seen as more and more inept in the PT. It's not just Sidious/Palpatine's evil genius that made him wipe out the Jedi, it was partly the state of the Jedi order.

    Notice the bad decisions made by the Jedi in TPM. They didn't respond adequetely to the emergence of the Sith after a 1000yrs. They didn't totally believe QGJ. If they had, they probably should have sent a dozen jedi with QGJ to see what is up with the mysterious warrior, don't you think? Then Maul would have been captured and they could have questioned him, instead of losing 1 jedi.

    In AOTC they make other bad decisions, misjudgements. Like with Dooku, who they don't think is evil at first. Just like with QGJ in TPM, they don't believe Padme. Also in AOTC, they don't freak out about the missing planet from the Jedi archives. The security of their order has been breached, they aren't alarmed. Another midjudgement is when Obi-wan tells Mace specifically Anakin shouldn't guard Padme. They don't listen to him.

    So you see, there are making a lot of mistakes and aren't even looking at things they should. You have a sense of guilt from Obi-wan when talking about the fall of the Jedi in ANH, and Yoda acting sort of crazy in ESB I think are both going to be the result of learning in Ep.III that they should have easily figured out who was doctoring their destruction.
  16. Jedisith1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 2
    this debate is still going on?

    We'l never know until episode III, and even then one side is not going to be happy
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Palpatine has plenty of time to pull it off. He's a Sith Lord. Also, the time between transmissions vary and so do Senate meetings. In TPM, between each break in the Senate, he spoke with the Trade Federation. Remember, time passes at differnt intervals. Courscant, Naboo and Tatooine have different passages of time. It's daytime on Tatooine when the Nubian leaves, nighttime on Naboo, and midday on Courscant when they arrive. They leave Courscant at night and it's day time when we cut to Naboo.

    According to the AOTC VD, which isn't canon, but it works. Dooku learned the history of the Sith and the basic teachings from a holoprojector, containing bits of information about the Sith. Maul probably used that for his training and when Palpatine wasn't in the Senat, he was training him. Dooku is a fully trained Jedi. All he has to learn is to use his anger.

    In AOTC, Palpatine has Dooku doing his dirty work for him. Which is why he's the better apprentice as he has experience in dealing with the CIS and being a leader. This is why we see him as Sidious at the end of AOTC and not throughout the film. The Jedi don't suspect him as he's too high profile. The Sith conceal and stick to the shadows. Maul fits the profile and so does Dooku, but not Palpatine. That's why he has remained hidden.

    As to the Superman anology, here's how it works. He changes his voice, hair, clothes, mannerisms and persona. Also, he makes sure to keep others from suspecting he's one and the same. He has lies for where he's at. He's had pics of him in both personas. And eyewintesses. J'onn J'onzz and Supergirl have used their shapeshifting abilities too look like either Superman or Clark Kent. And when he had energy powers, people didn't know he could change back and forth between them. Much less when he was split in two and Superman was fighting, while Clark Kent was at work.

    Lucas didn't lie about doing 9 films. He just changed his mind. And McCallum never said Jackman was to be in episode 3. That falls under Christopher Walken and Gabriel Byrne rumors. He was messing with people about actors, not characters. We make it too easy for him to get us like that.
  18. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    thank you darth, nuff said.
    wrap it up.
    this debate should be over about now.
  19. Antilles01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    Funny thread title considering the decision reached.
    :)
  20. Verdi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    None of the "good guys" knows Sidious exists. They know always two there are - master and apprentice, but we can't think of them arriving at conclusions the same way as us:

    i.e. "how could they not notice how similar they look!?"
  21. Obi-Wan Harclerode Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2000
    star 3
    One thing we are forgetting is Palpatine is avery public person, How could he find time to secretly train Maul?

    Also, You are a force user, you are in the same room with the most corrupted, darkside emanating bastard in the universe, not once, but many times and you don't sense crap? BS, Also what disturbance did Obi-Wan feel at the beginning of TPM, it had to have been Sidious contacting Nute, if not what was it?

    The dark side would definetely be felt, I still stick with the fact that I believe either Sidious is Palp's brother, or Palp is a clone of Sidous who is being controlled by Sly Moore to do what Sidious wants, and this clone has no force powers of any sort.

    You don't buy it, fine we will see in 3 years, but if there is no mystery, no twist, why in the Hell wouldn't GL jsut have one scene at the end where Palp puts on the hood?
  22. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    palpatine is the emperor. if he doesn't have the dark side powers how does he toss lightning at luke like it's sweat from his forehead?
    why does there have to be a surprise at the end?
    what's the mystery?
    unless you've never seen the ot before...
    'hey, is that palpatine, the guy with the hood?'
    three movies later...
    'yup'
    why is it so hard to believe that what's obvious to everybody is actually just what it is?
  23. Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 2
    I believe the fact that it's too obvious is what makes us think they are not the same person. Why would George keep Sidious' identity a secret until Episode III if it is so obvious to everyone? Why not just reveal him at the end of AOTC?
  24. Geh007 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 1
    <<Also, You are a force user, you are in the same room with the most corrupted, darkside emanating bastard in the universe, not once, but many times and you don't sense crap? BS, Also what disturbance did Obi-Wan feel at the beginning of TPM, it had to have been Sidious contacting Nute, if not what was it? >>

    Your first point has been discussed many times over, look back over the thread again.
    As for the disturbance, I'm not too sure of it either, but I think what was meant by that conversation was the general growing of the dark side, not just a specific instance of Sidious using his power.
  25. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    this is going nowhere.

    "They're just going around and around and around..."
    Jim Carrey, Truman Show
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