CT PT Contradicting OT

The thing with this contradiction is that OT was around before PT so I guess the prequel trilogy is at fault for these inconsistencies. Fault is quite harsh, but you understand my meaning. However, those saying, "he never owned the droids", while that being true, if you knew someone for that many years and was your apprentice, one can assume Obi Wan would have recognized his padawan's droids. And for those saying, "there are many astromechs and protocol droids in the galaxy", what are the odds you run into a blue astromech and gold protocol droid who happen to be buddy buddy. If you had a friend for 20+ years who had owned those two droids that are very unique from the other droids, I'm sure you'd remember them.

 

Not after spending twenty years in the desert keeping an eye on my friend's son. Hell, I have a hard time remembering exactly what some of my childhood pets looked like.

 

Well you're not a Jedi so...

 

So they're perfect?

 

I don't think I ever implied they are perfect..

 

Again, he never said that he didn't know them. He recognized Artoo and Threepio after Luke said his real name.

LUKE: "Oh, this little droid! I think he's searching for his former master...I've never seen such devotion in a droid before. He claims to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kenobi. Is he a relative of yours? Do you know who he's talking about?"

OBI-WAN: "Obi-Wan Kenobi...Obi-Wan? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time...a long time."

But what is it people are wanting out of Obi-wan? Considering he used to make loose wire jokes about Artoo and barely spent time with Threepio.

 

What implies he "recognized them"?

 

He didn't. It's pretty backwards to suggest that films made in 1977, 1980, and 1983 were recognizing scriptless films from 1999, 2002, and 2005. It couldn't be more clear from 1977 until the prequels that Obi-Wan had no clue who the droids were, and it would have been a ridiculous, nonsensical suggestion that Vader had made one of them himself. They were bizarre, weird, disturbingly off-the-mark plot points devised decades later and shoehorned into previous films.

It would be one thing if the prequels were merely bad films. I don't think anyone would care one way or another about them, unless they are a fan of them, which of course is their right. But what really angers or annoyed a lot of fans was the way they attempted to alter the originals in so many ways.

 

That is a matter of opinion. Having just watched A New Hope I could see a certain twinkle in Obi-Wan's eye when he says, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid", and I can imagine he's being coy.

 

Well, everything is a matter of opinion, but some opinions are more defensible than others. The original Star Wars came out in 1977. It was filmed the year before. The script was written before that. During the 1970s, the story for The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi had not even been developed yet, let alone Episode I which was released in 1999. It's impossible that there could be any references to the prequels in ANH.

 

Luke doesn't know that Ben Kenobi is Obi-wan Kenobi.

LUKE: "I thought he might have meant old Ben. Do you know what he's talking about? Well, I wonder if he's related to Ben."

Ergo, only a few people know that he's still alive and an Astromech droid that looks like Artoo just happens to be with Anakin's son, looking for him by his real name.

What do you expect him to say?

 

You are right about that, but it doesn't create as big of a problem as you think it does when you watch the films in order. When you watch the prequel trilogy and then move on to A New Hope, you can infer that those things that you just watched have still happened. See Obi-Wan's coy expression to R2 as I mentioned above. As an audience member you are almost privy to an inside joke. "That's right, he never owned R2, because he was Anakin's personal droid and friend." And you smile along with him.

 

kenobi knows. r2 knows as well that's why r2 knew where to look.

 

That's obvious. There can be no direct references to the actual prequels on such subplots in the originals, as those subplots didn't even exist for the most part at the time.

However, the issue here is to point out the contradictions between the 2 series of film. There are a few big ones to me. But on this matter, there is no real contradiction in the end. Ben Kenobi doesn't speak at all about the droids. He only says in ANH that he doesn't seem to remember ever owning a droid. He never says, like Darth-Sinister mentions above, or act like he doesn't know or recognize them.

 

This thread has become very redundant

We've been repeating ourselves for 11 pages lol

 

With regards to Luke's training, I don't mind so much the Jedi aspect because that can be pretty subjective within the Jedi order.

However, what bothers me is Luke's immediate placement in the Rebel military ranks. In A New Hope, within a matter of days it seems like, he goes from being a small time farm boy on Tattooine to being an essential element of a formal military assault on the Death Star, piloting his own X-Wing and giving commands to other pilots. In any respectable military that would just not happen, no matter how "good" that particular soldier is. It takes years and years of training, involvement in real operations, and movement up in the ranks for somebody, in this case a pilot, to get to the level Luke is at in ANH and ESB.

That is why I am excited for Rogue One. To see the real training, operations, and realistic struggles of the soldiers within the Rebellion.

 

His moment of giving commands to other pilots is odd - but sometimes, a person who takes charge, despite not having authority to do so - gets listened to, because of their confidence, assertiveness, etc.

 

I thought that in ANH they drafted everyone they could get for the Death Star assault. The more ships, the higher chance of success. Biggs, already a member of the Alliance vouches that Luke is a good pilot, so that helps as well.

 

If you will note, Pops/Red Leader isn't sure that Luke is on the level which is why he questions him and Biggs tells a half truth that he is best pilot, but not that he's had experience. Luke only takes over because all other senior officers were killed. Biggs trusts Luke and Wedge trusts Biggs and now Luke. Because of Leia, Luke is given his first rank and then he advances on his own to Commander and Rogue leader. Han himself is not military and yet he becomes General. Same with Lando.

 

Luke didn't have any rank in the first Death Star raid, he just happened to end up in the position to call the shots and he called them. It worked out pretty well so they gave him formal promotion in recognition of his achievement and it went from there. Not standard military procedure possibly but field promotions aren't entirely unheard of even today.

 

It's like poetry.

 

From the way it plays in the movie, it seems like Red Leader just makes a spur-of-the-moment decision to put Luke in charge of the next run. Like, maybe there wasn't any logic to it--but it was a desperate situation, they were probably never going to succeed no matter what they did, and Red Leader just had a feeling about this kid.

 

Well, originally he had flown with Anakin during the Clone Wars. So, he believed that Luke might be as good as his old man. He even says as much in the original version of the scene.

RED LEADER: "I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's skill, you'll do better than all right."

 

The biggest contradiction is when in ANH Obi Wan longingly recalls Anakin and says "and he was a good friend."

Those guys were never "good friends." They bickered and hated each other for two whole movies. The second Anakin was in another room he was on the verge of tears as he whined to Padme about Obi Wan and Obi Wan couldn't wait to tell anyone who'd listen how much he didn't trust Anakin.

Then Obi Wan calls Anakin his "brother" and cuts three of his limbs off a couple minutes later.

That's kind of a contradiction in my book.

 

Read this thread and my posts in there.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/were-obi-wan-and-anakin-ever-friends.50009632/page-6