CT PT Contradicting OT

They never had Owen being Obi-Wan's brother either. Movie Novelizations sometimes get retconned.

 

Oh yeah, that confused me too But I liked that the PT didn't follow that, however.

 

Based on the abilities of the Jedi we see from the PT, Luke is just as much Jedi as them. Don't forget that Luke had to take the lightning blasts from Sidious in order to bring his father back from the darkside.

 

PT Jedi were much more agile and elusive then Luke, Vader, and Obi-Wan in OT. But I think that the only reason why they are different is because of technological advancements. PT uses a lot of editing doing flips and crazy acrobatics which was probably damn near impossible to do in the late 70s, early 80s

 

Based on the appearance of his skills in the OT, I don't think Luke would have survived the Geonosis arena or Order 66. I don't think his blaster deflection was on that level yet in the OT.

But, again, this is based on Hamill's relatively stiff performance. It's probably more an OOU thing than IU.

 

Of course he would've survived, you know, because GL claims he to be the greatest Jedi ever

Seriously though, everybody in the OT had "stiff" performances. I blame that on the technology at the time. Blame is a harsh word, but most of the PT acrobatics were edited and what not, which was much better than what they had to work with in the OT era.

Some of the PT fight scenes weren't all flippy, but with the help of computer editing, viola!

 

That stuff was around back when the OT was made. Wire work was already being done by Hollywood and more so in Hong Kong cinema. The technical issues was in how the Lightsabers were realized, how old Guniness was and how difficult it was for Prowse and Anderson to move in the suit. Note that we see Luke doing flips during his duels. In terms of fighting styles, Lucas had wanted the sabers to be like huge broadswords that were difficult to move around like lighter swords such as katanas and Chinese broadswords are. The styles evolved with the PT because Lucas hired someone else other than Peter Diamond and decided to base the fighting styles on Hong Kong cinema.

Luke was said to be using Form V, which his father used. But Luke didn't have nearly the number of years. But in general, it wasn't really Hamill so much as Diamond versus Gillard in terms of fight choreography and Lucas's decision to take it beyond what we saw.

 

Look at when Luke kicked Vader down the stairs in ESB. That was terribly unconvincing. Simply stuff like that improved over the year with better editing. I never said it wasn't around during OT. I was saying it was enhanced over the years.

 

Well, it's not technology, it's the choreography and the performance of swordplay.

There's no "technology" that made Luke look like he was swinging a baseball bat. That wasn't due to a lack of computers. Maybe George told him to do it because allegedly George had this idea that lightsabers were supposed to be sorta heavy, or maybe Mark's attempts at swinging what was supposed to be a sword were just poor. Maybe Mark had absolutely no idea how to swing a sword, maybe he had no training, or not enough training. Maybe George and Co just didn't spend enough time on it. Maybe Mark didn't really know what swinging a sword was even supposed to look like. Or maybe that heavy choreography was intentional. Regardless, it had little to nothing to do with technology.

Hayden and Ewan had a ton of sword training and worked on their choreography endlessly until they mastered it, and it shows. Their ability to swing a sword and look graceful while doing it had nothing to do with technology or computers, it was just talent, hard work and time invested on their part.

There's no "technology" in Mark's herky-jerky attempts to portray blaster deflection in ROTJ, especially on Endor. Now, maybe he was told to do it that way. Maybe the Force is sorta supposed to be controlling him a bit, suddenly moving his arms to the proper place to deflect the blaster bolts, so he sorta looks like the Force is forcibly controlling him like a puppet, and that's intentional. Or, maybe that wasn't the intention at all, and Mark was just stiff. Either way, his stiff blaster deflection on Endor has nothing to do with technology or computers.

Oddly enough, Mark's portrayal of blaster deflection on the Falcon in ANH was much more smooth (despite the "controls your actions" line coming immediately prior), if a bit too posed.

Hayden and Ewan's very smooth blaster deflection was also a result of their practice, not technology or computers.

Sword work, the actual swinging of swords by actors, has little to nothing (nothing) to do with technology or computers.

I never really mentioned flipping and acrobatics. It has nothing to do with actual sword work.

But really, the acrobatics in the OT, especially Luke's, looks fine. Good, even.

Luke's backflipping away from Vader in ROTJ looks really good, imo.

I actually love Luke's Force jump out of the carbon freezing chamber. It looks like he was shot out of a cannon, it looks awesome, even better than Obi-Wan's Force jump to catch up to Qui-Gon/Maul in TPM.

Does Luke do as much acrobatics as the PT Jedi? Maybe not, but he does do them, and they look fine or even good.

Did advances in technology make it easier to add more acrobatics in the PT? Maybe, but they're still there in the OT, even if not as often.

Anyway, back to Luke's Jedi skills.

What sinister said, Luke didn't have the 10+ years of training that Anakin and all the other Jedi had, so that could be used as an IU reason that Luke's blaster deflection doesn't appear to be up to the level of the PT Jedi, you could say that. You could use that and say Luke wasn't quite fully trained, and I think it's reasonable.

 

I'm not solely speaking on lightsaber combat and technology, obviously a large part is choreography, but to replicate the acrobatic fight scenes with all of the flips and twirls would be difficult with the technology they had in the 70s and 80s. You cannot say the stiff fighting was solely on choreography because in the PT the actors weren't doing all of the flips themselves (even with the strings) besides for maybe Darth Maul played by Ray Park. CGI and editing has vastly improved over the last 30+ years, allowing the PT to pull off all of those acrobatics without it looking too fake.

 

What you're speaking on has nothing to do with what I said, what you responded to.

This was my comment.

I never said anything about flips or twirls or acrobatics.


The flips and twirls are 100% irrelevant to my point. CGI and editing are 100% irrelevant to my point.

Flips and twirls, CGI and editing have nothing to do with blaster deflection.

I don't care about replicating the flips and twirls. That was never part of anything I said. I don't care about the PT fight scenes involving more acrobatics.

I can say Luke looked stiff because Mark was stiff in his performance. CGI, editing, flips, twirls, they're all irrelevant.

But it looks I'm wasting my time trying to explain this to you.

 

You said "stiff performance". Flips and twirls contribute to the fluidity of fighting. But whatever, if you feel you're wasting time then I guess we'll end it here lol

 

I only ever recall Luke swinging his sword like a baseball bat once, in the duel in ROTJ, when he loses himself. Otherwise ... not so much? I don't recall another scene like that.

Sometimes Anakin blocks blade from his back! Talk about a weird swordfighting move. PT Jedi do many weird moves that leave them wide open to attack.

The "best" swordfight is Obi-Wan vs. Vader on the Death Star, because minus Obi-Wan's pirouette looks most like fencing does.

It's all just show-fighting and what you find most convincing depends on the viewer.

 

The Star Wars fight was based on fencing. Alec Guiness had done fencing in the past for various roles. If you look at it, its very well done. The fight might be slow, but each attack is more realistic than the jumping around and flips the PT has.

The nadir of lightsaber combat has to be sections of the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel. In an effort to make it the most epic duel evah, the did stupid over the top things like aforementioned blocking the back and when they swing on ropes off a disintegrating piece of machinery just to cross blades once.

It strikes me odd that shows like Game of Thrones are popular, when the sword-fighting is more OT than PT. Sometimes less is more, except when you are trying to go for spectacle to hide inadequacies in plot and execution.

 

I'd rather watch the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel because it is much more entertaining than the Obi/Vader duel on the Death Star. IMO, the DS duel was slow and too robotic. But like Darth Perva said, it depends on the viewer.

 

I seriously doubt Mark's natural coordination.

There are moments in the OT where he's holding his lightsaber with a left handed grip...in a right handed stance.

Like a kid who doesn't know how to hold a baseball bat.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a baseball player in an opposite stance of his preferred hand. That's got to be the most awkward swing

 

Left hand batters dominate right hand pitchers (idk this was kind of random)

Back on topic on SW, wasn't Dooku's fighting style based off of fencing?

 

I can see a fencer like Dooku dominating another fencer, but I don't see how he dominates Jedi using Ataru, Juyo, Niman or Djem So. I'm not sure if he fought anybody using juyo or niman but I know for sure he fought against Ataru, Soreso, and Djem So.

How is he able to defend so easily against these aggressive fighting styles?