main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT PT Discussion of future SW Content (Locked) - Discussion Moved to Saga Board

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by {Quantum/MIDI}, Feb 16, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    While I agree that a character discovering the importance of family has been with the Jurassic franchise from the get go, part of what Giorgan Monk is saying is that Howard's character was originally portrayed as a cold business woman who only became heroic once she uncovered her maternal instincts. Now I think that is a part of an interesting story arc even Grant went through in JP but women's roles in Hollywood are under greater scrutiny. They are also fewer.

    By the way, someone mentioned Nedry from JP above…I will guarantee you if that character first appeared in JW as the food munching big guy(remember he was barely in a scene where he wasn't eating something), people would have raised their ire at that character too. Guaranteed. We just live in a different world than in 93. I watch episode after episode of Seinfeld and sometimes think "couldn't do that today" on and on. Just the world as it is now.
     
  2. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Perhaps these series should be left behind if celebrated aspects of the past are no longer acceptable in the present. Although even if Howard's character in JW was a Rey-style butt kicker, would the film still deserve a free pass? You could say JW is anti-science in that the attempt to "play god" is punished time and time again. And anti-free market given that the big Disneyesque brand that is Jurassic Park breeds literal monsters that literally eat consumers, time and time again. Frankly this type of pulp adventure will never be entirely "good for you."
     
  3. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Christopher Nolan (though he'd never do it in a million years), Denis Villeneuve, Neill Blomkamp. Those three would be my choices for new SW movies in general going forward. I doubt they'll replace Trevorrow on Ep. IX.
     
  4. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    Nolan might if they let him make his movie.
     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  5. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Agreed.
    But all the same, if Spielberg were supposed to be directing IX I think people would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, instead of immediately calling for him to be dismissed from the project as soon as they re-watched JP. I agree that CT's record on female characters is far from perfect, but I think the people who claim to want him fired are getting a little carried away. That's all.[face_dunno]
    According to Slashfilm, LFL execs saw The Book of Henry as long ago as late 2015. If KK was having serious second thoughts about hiring CT she would have taken action before now.

    Anyway, that new Phasma comic looks awesome. I'm curious to see how it pans out time frame wise, considering that VIII is supposed to begin with the last scene of VII.[face_thinking]
    [​IMG]https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/06/a-sneak-peak-at-marvels-captain-phasma.html

    Edit:
    But you'll never look at B&Q the same way again.:p
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    It's actually heartening to see how many fans are no longer tolerant of sexism in genre fiction, whether it's explicit or implicit. Makes me feel good about being associated with this fandom.
     
  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I'm digging this. Costumes are very PT like and it reminds me of the nightclub in AOTC.
     
  8. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    At first I thought the costumes and creatures looked too much like Harry Potter rather than Star Wars, but I'm starting to like it more, although they do look more fantasy oriented rather than sci-fi to me. At least it's all around much more imaginative and unique than anything in TFA. This looks completely different from anything in the OT, or even the PT. (Something actually ENTIRELY NEW in a NEW Star Wars movie of the Disney era? Who knew it was possible?) I still have misgivings about a lot of the costumes looking too blandly normal and Earth-like, and not alien enough. And the whole aesthetic is still plagued by that restricted brown/white/black color scheme. Look at all the aliens. They all have brown skin. Gone are the days of multi-colored, diverse alien designs. The whole galaxy feels ten times smaller under Disney's rule... (Is that... *gasp* GREEN SCREEN in the background I'm spying with my little eye? Can it be??)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I can dig that RJ wants a uniform color scheme for certain scenes/environments, maybe to make them feel a bit eerie or something (it certainly gives me the creeps). It does seem a bit odd, though, that every single non-human is on the beige side.
    Well, if fans complain loudly enough, they might change some colors in post-production ;)
     
    Mostly Handless and Gamiel like this.
  10. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    I personally don't at all believe that this is a conscious choice on the director's part. I'm entirely convinced that it is a mandated design element they have to keep in. It's part of the marketing strategy, to subconsciously attach it to the OT in people's minds, a.k.a. the "good part" of Star Wars.
     
    TheDutchman likes this.
  11. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Ummm... That sounds extremely unlikely to me.
    Especially given the fact that the "good part" of Star Wars had its fair share of colorful non-humans.
     
  12. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    What in the...

    1. How does every alien being "beige" attach the ST to the OT? There are plenty non-beige aliens in that trilogy (in the Cantina, Jabba's palace, Yoda, Ackbar, etc)

    2. In TFA, three of the six most prominent non-Chewie aliens are orange (Maz), blue (Vober Dand) and red (Ackbar)

    3. In Rogue One, three of the four most prominent aliens are brown (Bistan), grey-green (Pao) and white (Moroff)

    Given these facts, how does your theory hold up to even the most cursory scrutiny? Answer: it doesn't. It's just an example of a paranoid and unsubstantiated feeling that Disney hates the prequels.
     
  13. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    There was something of a "beige" look developing in ROTJ with the Rebels -- e.g., Han and Lando.

    TFA also breaks out the olives and beiges big time on the Resistance base.

    Of course, Rey is also in a beige or mustard outfit; but she does come from Jakoouine.

    Some brown in a Star Wars movie is obvious and inevitable.

    And I'm not going to personally dock TLJ at this stage for (seemingly) trying to be a touch original. Its own use of tawny shadings actually strikes me as something of a departure from the former movies. As I said in an earlier post regarding the "Vanity Fair" images, the burnished bronzes and plush browns of the "ballroom" setting, at least, make the film seem reminiscent of "The Fifth Element" (or the architecture does) and David Lynch's "Dune"; which the latter, of course, is another Science-Fiction/Fantasy quasi-medieval prophecy-obsessed Jedi-istic tale of uprising and rebellion (and Frank Herbert's original was clearly a significant influence on the OT -- desert planet, spice melange, mind tricks/mental persuasion, etc.).

    I think we still need to keep a bit of an open mind here. I can't quite agree that these are "mandated design elements". I do understand the concern, however. A certain kind of human-centrism (vis-a-vis the original trilogy and the prequels) is in evidence in TFA. Yes, of course, there are aliens and droids; and even an alien X-wing pilot. But it still ends up placing quite an emphasis on human turncoats, human smugglers, human gangs, human strategists, human commanders, human generals. Even Maz Kanata has a less "alien" presence (consider her normal/normalized speech patterns) than Yoda or Jar Jar. And probably so that TFA didn't get hit with charges of stereotyping and racism.

    There were also calculated utterances from TFA's director and executive producer that are perhaps worth remembering. "JJ" joked about putting Jar Jar's bones in the desert in a "Vanity Fair" article in June 2015 (the films obviously use Vanity Fair as a third-arm PR venture), while "KK" assured gathered geek-media journalists at a "ScreenSlam"-uploaded press junket that "Jar Jar's definitely not in the movie" to cheers (2:18) in December 2015; mere weeks from its release. Those can be taken as relatively aphoristic statements, in my view, that people could look forward to encountering nothing especially awkward or compromising about Star Wars under Disney. To quote RedLetterMedia in their TPM review: "Keep it nice and simple."

    So I completely see why Seeker Of The Whills thinks they're taking a conservative, OT-trodden path. Trying to be kind and wait and see; but a lot has already been done (in my opinion) to serve an image-obsessed, commercial agenda. TLJ may, for the foreseeable future, be as good as it gets.
     
  14. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    And that's a fair assessment, but also unfortunate. Women are just as multi-faceted as men, and I think it's unfair if a female character can't be construed as cold or uninterested in children until she uncovers her maternal instincts. Both male and female characters can be subject to the same faults, and it shouldn't be construed as sexist if a female character is less than admirable, and then becomes admirable after finding deeper meaning in herself. Especially when folks throw the word "evil" around like the previous poster did (and I have much respect for Gigorian Monk, but just very greatly disagree with him here).

    Vince D'Onofrio's character was evil. Bryce Dallas Howard's never was. She was just more interested in numbers and shareholders; she learned her lesson, just like Alan Grant (with children) and John Hammond (with business).
     
  15. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015
    This is a great point.
     
    JoshieHewls likes this.
  16. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Let's see about that:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    First off, Ackbar was never red. More like brown/orange. And the other three? They follow the exact brown/grey look as a significant amount of the aliens in the OT. Just face it: The primary colors Disney is reusing from the OT are brown/beige for the rebels, and white/grey/black with a small splash of red for the Empire. Basically brown = good, black = bad. A very simplistic design choice, one even a little child with insufficient language skills to understand the plot can grasp. This compared to the PT, which boldly inverted many of these older conventions that many thought to be set in stone.

    Very "Sith-ly" looks for Queen Amidala, and especially her handmaidens, with lots of reds and very dark blacks:[​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As well as the Naboo Guards, who are basically the precursors to the Rebel troopers in the OT:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You're telling me there's no difference, or that it's a complete coincidence that the Disney movies just happen to look more like the OT?
     
    {Quantum/MIDI} and Cryogenic like this.
  17. B3

    B3 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2014
    I still feel like TLJ is going to be a lot more colorful than some people fear. That red dust on Crait is just a tease.
    And hey, we know Snoke at least is going to be pretty colorful. An Annie Leibovitz photoshoot is not an accurate gauge of how the finished film is going to look.

    I'll admit I wasn't crazy about the black-tie formal wear at first, but it's grown on me. I think Canto Bight is going to be an eye-popping sequence all around.
     
  18. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    George Lucas' use of colour in the prequels is very much symphonic.

    Disney's use of colour in the new films seems much more... phlegmatic.

    Even the "Lucasfilm" logo no longer cycles through a range of colour values or twinkles. It's now just grey and metallic.

    And there's no big flashy "20th Century Fox" logo at the start, lending a bright burst of trumpet-accompanied golds and yellows and velvet-sky purples, either.

    One can perhaps draw their own conclusions from these particular differences. Dowdiness -- or, at least, a chilly conservatism -- seems part and parcel of the new hegemony.
     
  19. B3

    B3 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2014
    I know, but I'm holding on to naïve optimism. Not that I'm expecting anything like Lucas on that front.
     
  20. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    So is your Luke avatar! ;) :p
     
    B3 and Subtext Mining like this.
  21. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    First of all, why are you expanding the goalposts of the discussion to include clothing? I was clearly discussing your concern about the beige skin of the TLJ aliens (as their clothing is clearly much more vibrant). Here is what you said in all your hyperbolic, Disney-bashing glory:

    Secondly, which is related to the above, when did I say anything about the overall design palette? I was talking about the aliens.

    Thirdly, deliberately posting poor-quality photos with muted colors does not a compelling point make. Not least as you omitted those aliens I mentioned that clearly don't conform to your point. Below is a far more accurate representation of the very colorful aliens we see in TFA, RO and the OT, which essentially renders your point about "all brown aliens" moot.

    TFA: orange (Maz), blue (Vober Dand) and red/ orange (Ackbar)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    RO: brown (Bistan), grey/green (Pao) and white (Moroff)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    OT: All kinds of colors.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So, what was your point again?
     
    DrDre, Martoto77 and Darth Downunder like this.
  22. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Too much color in those OT/ST/R1 images. My graphics card canno take much more of this!
     
    DrDre, Martoto77 and thejeditraitor like this.
  23. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    STAR WARS The Last Jedi SPOILER Pics! Part 67



    New SPOILER pics from the set of TLJ including Mark Hamill, Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, Kelly Marie Tran, Oscar Isaac, Carrie Fisher and Rian Johnson!
     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  24. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Well, there's not exactly an absence of colour, but hand-picking a narrow set of images barely articulates anything.

    It must all be seen in relation to a broader whole.

    It's like when you've gone into the "Practical Effects" thread and suggested that prequel fans posting a deluge of behind-the-scenes images that demonstrate an enormous range sets, models, props, etc., isn't especially valid and doesn't do anything to change the fact that some people can't see past how "animated" the PT movies look.

    A few character-design pictures here and there does not suddenly make the Disney films an oasis of colour and eye-watering complexity and whimsy. It might help rebut or challenge simplistic notions in a very quick-fix sort of way; but it doesn't necessarily wash away all complaint or concern.


    I know things can get lost in the heat of an argument; but in fairness...

    This was the post that started the whole sidebar off:

    And Seeker Of The Whills quoted it directly.

    I think a natural conflation took place between uniforms, alien skin colour, and the overall design palette.



    You see, here, and with your "Rogue One" images...

    It really depends what you mean when you talk about colours.

    For starters, Admiral Ackbar is clearly "Beige Man" and wears a pretty boring beige and olive-brown uniform. Also, while it's nice to have him there, he's essentially a phoned-in extra from ROTJ.

    Maz's clothes (and yes I'm talking about the design palette overall -- as Star Wars is a series which summons an array of design elements and melds them together for maximum visual impact)...

    They're also super, super bland, in my opinion. But let's move beyond clothes, or even skin colour, because those are hardly "all" there is to a person; unless we really *do* want to make Star Wars the most racist film series of all time.

    Maz herself, as a character, in my view, is not the enigmatic backwards-talking sage of Yoda, nor even the elastic, excitable, pidgin-speaking amphibious Jar Jar. They tried to give her some odd trait when she suddenly springs up onto the table and crawls toward Finn; but it's nowhere near as memorable, in my opinion, as Yoda fighting with Artoo or his summoning the X-wing out of the swamp; or even that part where Yoda is sitting inside Luke's backpack and instructing him in the ways of the Force. And Jar Jar is much more of a delightful oddball, in my opinion, with his splenetic eye stalks, wild goofy grins, the big gestures he makes with his arms, the sad puppy looks, or using his long tongue to gobble down food. Lucas dared to be different in all of his movies. He made sure there were formidable contrasts and memorable traits built into a wide array of characters and environments. And he didn't care what others thought about him embracing the child-like and the surreal. Maz has next to nothing that is larger than life about her. Yoda is equally diminutive in stature; but he isn't to be judged by his size because there's so much more he brings.


    See...

    These guy are gloriously goofy and populate a very well-developed and hilariously entertaining stretch of ROTJ. And yet they're just side characters to the main dish of Jabba, the rancor, and the Sarlacc; and the larger set-piece which details Luke's somewhat unlikely, pirate-ship rescue of his friends. There's a lot of arresting visual delectation in ROTJ's opening act. Just think of Artoo flipping Luke his new saber and Luke activating it for the first time with a confident, satisfied look on his face. And the colour of it!!! Even smaller bits-n-pieces tantalize. It is a fully-fledged escapade that could easily be the climax of a lesser movie.


    It's nice to see these two images together:

    Oola and Yoda. You know it makes sense.

    Hey, not like that...

    There's something so wondrously inventive and quietly profound about so many of the frames of Star Wars -- or the Star Wars that once was.

    I'll say this much:

    The looks of fear and reverential contentment on the faces of Oola and Yoda are perfect in themselves. Two green, long-"eared" characters looking up; yet in two very different places in their lives.

    Kathleen Kennedy has also declaimed the Frank Frazetta pulp eroticism of ROTJ; suggesting such imagery should not occur under her stewardship of the franchise and is no longer appropriate in today's world:

    Referring to a notorious scene in Return of the Jedi, I asked Kennedy if she would ever have put Princess Leia in a golden bikini—the famous “slave Leia” costume that is embedded in the collective unconscious of legions of men who were adolescents in the 80s. “With a chain around her neck?,” Kennedy asked, arching an eyebrow and laughing. “I don’t think that would happen.” She quickly added that she didn’t think George Lucas would put her in that bikini today.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/kathleen-kennedy-hollywood-producer

    (And she is quickly contradicted by Mellody Hobson in that same passage).

    So it actually makes me a bit uncomfortable to see you arguing "for" Disney on the basis of such imagery. They don't seem to want it there going forward. And whether that changes or not, the head of Lucasfilm has now spoken out against it print; granting some insight into some of the anxiety toward Lucas' legacy by the new holders of his saga.

    Personally, I'm grateful Lucas made the movies when he did; and while he still could. There is obviously something in the air, to put it politely, making characters such as Jar Jar and Oola less probable going forward. They have already been obliquely blackballed by Disney and given a lesser status; emblematic of some sea change shift in the construction of future Star Wars entertainments.

    Once again, I think there is grounds for looking a little askance at what Disney are doing; and/or setting out to do. The "Other" in Star Wars embodied by the clumsy-but-well-meaning Jar Jar, seen as racially problematic, and the "slave girl" look of Oola (and Leia), seen as sexually exploitative, has already been traduced and made even more "otherworldly" -- too otherworldly for future inclusion. New stuff must be fashioned from a more conservative template. The Republic will be reorganized into the First Galactic Empire. Jar Jar is being pushed out of the frame again; and Oola is being sent to the pit to be eaten once more. But apart from that, I guess there's as much colour as there's ever been. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along...
     
  25. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    don't get personal
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.