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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT PT Discussion of future SW Content (Locked) - Discussion Moved to Saga Board

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by {Quantum/MIDI}, Feb 16, 2016.

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  1. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012


    LMFAO... I could just see that this comment here by Downunder...

    ...has the making of a M. Night Shyamalan movie, where the plot twist revolves around the revelation that the Downunder from the past, is actually talking to a future version of himself when he says to that future version of himself to move on past the movies he didn't like. That the old Downunder is trying to warn the future one to move on....

    As Cryo has pointed out, we have been up and down, back and through these conversations over and over.

    However, we do have new people here, new contributors to the conversation, so I think it is important, even though in the light of large amounts of saying the same things over and over, that if the new people are going to partake in the conversation, than it's important to make sure that all sides of the conversation be re-established. This is why I have never had a problem with criticism threads in the PT section, even though personally I have grown tired of them, so I just stay away from them the best I can. The aspect of the criticism of the PT that I don't like, is that people that want to be critical of the PT can't seem to control themselves. So when we have a thread about Anakin's in-grown toe nail, and how it may have affected his ability to use the Force, it's only a matter of time that a pretentious PT critic surely won't be able to help themselves and want to talk about the acting, or the dialogue, or how they should have used a practical toe instead of a CGI toe.

    So while it might get boring, or even seem petty that members like myself or others revisit what has been said before, it is important so that these threads don't become soapboxes for a particular point of view.

    As for the whole Lucas said, Hamill said thing...

    It is clear, as far as TFA went, Lucas was really parsing his words in the various interviews in which he made comment on the actual movie. When an interviewer asks Lucas what he thought of the movie, and he deflects his answer away to what he thinks the fans will think of the movie, it is an obvious attempt to say something nice, but, at the same time it calls back on so many of Lucas's earlier comments about his relationship with the fans, the negative side of that relationship..

    Furthermore, as Cryo pointed out, the whole Charlie Rose snafu where Lucas seemingly got himself in some hot water with the legal arm of Disney with the white slavers comments, surely tipped Lucas off that he had to be more creative with his thoughts.

    Since than, Lucas has become less and less public in regards to Star Wars. Yes he shows up at the sets of the movies, but, he is not talking about it, it's Disney that makes sure that this news about Lucas's visits gets out into the media. This than leads to the directors and other people working on the movie being asked what Lucas had to say. It's a nice set-up by Disney to promote their movie.

    They are clearly getting their cake and eating it too. They use Lucas's visit to the sets and the nice things that he says about the movie and sets, and actors etc etc as a way to legitimize their new Star Wars product for those fans that still hold appreciation for Lucas's opinion, yet they (Disney) know they have hand-cuffed Lucas in that Lucas can't say anything particularly critical. Less he gets a phone call from Disney Legal, and Lucas has to send out another press-release, written by his lawyer or at least scrutinized by his lawyer.

    Furthermore, Lucas, after decades, of being raked over the coals by critics, industry insiders and even fans about his art, isn't about to personally attack the work of another artist. Again, it is important to note that the Charlie Rose interview saw Lucas attacking Disney, and their big studio mentality of the way they were pushing TFA to be, and not what Abrams did with it after Disney had set the terms.

    AS for Mark Hamill, I like Hamill. I can listen to him tell stories forever. He has a fascinating way about telling his stories, and I think it's because he is more of an everyday, ordinary person that would love sitting in a bar having a beer telling his stories. As opposed to a Harrison Ford who is more comfortable doing interviews where he isn't telling a story more than just answering a question that he had previous knowledge was going to be asked. So he has time to think about and analyze what he is going to say.

    (Edit: I have this opinion because it has been stated many times by different people just how grumpy of a person Ford is at functions when people try to approach him)

    With that said though, even Hamill knows how to play the game. He knows that if he continues to want to work, well than he has to be nice and temper his public remarks. That's not to say he is not genuine when he says he likes R1, but, he realizes he isn't in some bar drinking beers with a few patrons spinning a few tales. He knows what he says in various interviews have consequences. As Lucas learned, and as Anthony Daniels learned.

    So while I believe Hamill probably liked R1, I think what needs to be realized is that if he did have anything critical to say about it, we will probably never hear about it, with the exception of very watered down comments that are vague at best, because he does occasionally let something slip and than tries to back track it to water it down.

    What becomes clear is that Disney expects total obedience, it expects it's actors to march in lockstep, to it's marketing, to it's message, to it's brand! Any deviation from that, and there is a phone call, there is a talking too.

    You don't bite the hand that feeds you. That is the game in big studio Hollywood. How many times have we heard, years later, from actors, actresses, directors, producers of various films, that there were huge problems between various people on the sets of a movie. That one actor couldn't stand another actor, or the director couldn't stand an actress. Yet, if one goes back and looks at the press interviews for those movies, all parties sing the praise of each other. That's the game, that all parties have a monetary interest in putting on the fake smile for the movie, to say nothing but nice things about the movie and anything associated with the movie, even if they feel otherwise. Hamill is not stupid. Again, not saying that his feelings are not genuine, but, to think we are getting all of his genuine thoughts is a bit naive.


    EDIT: Just to add, most, if not all, contracts that actors or actresses, directors etc etc sign have what's called a non-disparagement clause. It means that they can't say anything bad about the movie that might hurt the financial success of the movie. This was a big deal a few years ago when a studio took a movie away from the Director and actors, and changed quite a bit of the movie, so as a protest, they wore t-shirts with the clause written on it. They didn't say anything bad about the movie, their protest was wearing the clause on their shirts explaining why they couldn't say anything SO if anyone thinks they are truly getting all of an actors feelings about a movie, you might want to read what's on their shirts:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    It seems to me that all evidence form the past suggests that Hamill and Lucas are fairly straightforward, and honest people. If Mark Hamill says he liked Rogue One, then he probably Liked Rogue One.
    As for Lucas, its well known from others who have worked with him (Hamill, for example) that the guy rarely gives compliments, so the fact that he appears to have taken over half an hour to tell John Knoll and Gareth Edwards that he had a positive reaction to their movie must mean something good. Perhaps he really, genuinely, even, liked Rogue One.

    In other news. Rey has a new costume...
    [​IMG]
    Looks a little like her Jakku get-up from TFA, with a dash of Qui-gon around the tabards and the hair. I like it.:)
    Perhaps its just me, but in all the promo stuff we've seen from TLJ so far Rey seems to have a far more brooding, almost dangerous look than the lovable desert scavenger we saw in TFA? Anyway, she looks kick-ass.[face_dancing]
     
  3. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Still see no evidence that anybody has felt compelled to give inauthentic or disproportionate praise to atone for giving the impression that their reaction is a negative one. Or any evidence that one should automatically be cynical about the truth behind the positive publicity, any more so than about any mass media campaign.

    I seriously doubt that Disney is any more or any less concerned with getting the most out of publicity than any other major entertainment corporation and that they welcome queries that they can respond to on an unambiguous and united front. And neither is it unique in enjoying that kind of publicity efforts from participants in its projects.

    It matters not that Mark Hamill is echoing his own personal feelings voiced in 1999 and again in 2010/11 about Luke's potential ongoing adventures, i.e. "the second coming" - headline makers are obliged to get as much interest from readers from that kind of copy. No matter that his remarks can only be inferred as indication of a negative response if one chooses to. He was merely acknowledging that the fan who is nostalgic for Luke and who desires a return of his daring, mythical persona to the screen more than anything else may not get what they want from TFA. (somehow twisted into him apologizing for the nostalgia cash in that TFA is).

    The logic that he gives R1 more than the share of praise he'd normally give it because he disobeyed guidelines for secrecy- In other words, that he is only giving R1 this amount of praise because he's obeying instructions this time, instead of being honest like the last time -- utterly perverse.

    Tony Daniel's remarks in that article are also totally consistent with the tone and demeanour he has presented in just about every LFL produced supplement he has appeared in too.

    I've not seen anyone claim that we are getting all his thoughts. Nor has anyone claimed that his unspoken thoughts must be similarly and exclusively positive or anything like that. But it seems to be in this discussion, that one is obligated to assume that they are of not all positive, but furthermore, we should presume to know the nature and extent of his as yet untold negative thoughts from the positive nature of his already expressed thoughts. That is sheer conjecture and fantasy. No-one here has that knowledge and cannot presume to know on the basis of such perverse logic.
     
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  4. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Don't say I didn't warn you. And you added petty personal attacks, to boot.
     
  5. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Thread will re-open in two weeks. Decided after a discussion between Seagoat and me.
     
  6. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Unlocked. This will be the last time this thread unlocks - next time it closes, it's permanently. Thanks.
     
  7. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Today's the day!!! Hope to see some interesting new Locations/planets!!
     
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  8. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    & hopefully another awesome SW trailer!
     
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  9. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Hyped!!!!
     
  10. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Hmm, no Padme in that Forces of Destiny preview. Looks like she'll still appear given they showed Anakin's voice actor, but very disappointing not to see even a piece of Padme art in the preview vid highlighting Star War heroines.
     
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  11. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Too much negativity. You'll get the thread closed again. :p
     
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  12. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    Natalie will not be voicing Padme. The girl from CW will.

    And Padme is confirmed to be in it. Though, it is a bit disappointing to not see anything related to her much(other than Leia).

    Probably haven't finished enough of her to showcase.
     
  13. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Fascinating trailer. December, I'm ready.
     
  14. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    What do we think about this then?

     
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  15. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Maybe. Although given that some other concept art was shown it strikes me as odd they didn't find any room in that preview for one single visual representation of one of the saga's most important characters.

    Regarding the teaser for TLJ, probably the least awe-inspiring trailer I've ever seen for SW. Minus the one shot that looked pod-racerish this strikes me as leftover TFA footage. Although this time Rey takes over Finn's heavy breathing jump scare intro, so I guess there's that as far as new stuff goes. My hype meter is sitting at 3 furry Ewok warriors out of a possible 12.
     
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  16. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012

    The last line has me irritated. It seems a continuation coming out of the fandom that the Jedi were actually bad in some ways and needed to die and be destroyed just as the Sith did. Not liking it, again seems to be departing from Lucas's intentions of the Force and Balance. However, I realize it is only trailer and the context could be way off, but, it seems pretty straight forward the message that is being sent.

    My problem will always and forever be, is this what Lucas wanted to happen in his story... It aggravates me that we are getting other peoples, other fans, interpretations of what they think the story should be based of their own belief systems, ideologies, and views on the saga.


    I would hope you would keep in mind that a few here have expressed a desire to see this thread closed, and now with your ultimatum, they will be encouraged to behave badly in order to fulfill their desire to see this thread closed. I would ask that you keep in mind that closing a good and yes, at times, controversial thread, doesn't deter bad behavior from all parties involved. It only deters bad behavior from those that want the thread to stay open. Punishing individuals for bad behavior is a far better deterrent, than punishing the masses.
     
  17. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    I reakon Luke will be talking to Yoda (and possibly Obi-Wan/Anakin) when he makes his Jedi must end speech... Will be interesting to hear their reactions.

    My thoughts on the trailer: Waaaaaaaay better than the TFA trailers which were extremely superficial IMO. This one (even though it's a Teaser) has real depth and meaning and I'm already loving some of Rian's shots which look really artistic. After the big misstep of TFA hopefully I have my Star Wars back. :D

    Well you know my thoughts. In an ideal world they would always (ALWAYS) go with Lucas' ideas and stories while he is still alive. But they didn't so we are where we are and we just have to hope that Rian can bring Star Wars back to at least being partly the bold, experimental, artistic cinematic experience that we had under Lucas.

    Despite what people think I don't want to be a Grinch on here so I give Rian my best wishes and I'll be there in December hoping for the best.
     
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  18. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I would hope that you trust my discretion. Should you see an individual attempting to do what you described, please contact me/Seagoat or use the report function.

    In the previous circumstances, it was disappointing behavior from numerous individuals that led to the closing of the thread (twice).

    Please PM me, should you wish to continue this discussion.
     
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  19. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001

    Loving the Avatar... That teaser poster is great BTW. Finally (finally) Star Wars is back to be bold, artistic and surprising.
     
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  20. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    The part inside the tree with the "book" with the Jedi Order symbol on it was easily my favorite part, it was so mystical I couldn't help but love it. As for that line I think we need more context but I think Luke's arc in that movie is that of a man who lost hope but with the help of Rey by the end of the movie he will have hope again, just my opinion of course.
     
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  21. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012


    I dunno, I watched it a few times, and am getting the same vibe as Id id from the TFA tailers...

    We don't actually see Luke, just silhouettes and voice...

    Tie Fighters, X-Wings, Millennium Falcon getting chased by Tie Fighters... The jump scare... Oh wait.. A-wings, those are new....

    There are a few new ship designs that give us some hope, but, how much they are showcased when the standard is that The First Order =Tie Fighters, and the Resistance = X-wings seems to be continued.

    The trailer does seem a little more thought provoking.... But, again, it's just a trailer

    However, we can already see the Empire Strikes Back theme...

    Walker and speeder battle, The First Empirder attacking a Rebesistance base. Rebesistance heroes running through a base being attacked. The New, New hope being taught by the exiled old Jedi master...

    Hoping there is more meat to this one....
     
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  22. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    I'm fine with some ESB theme's/elements (AOTC had bounty hunters, for example...) just so long as we don't have another rehash and Rian gives us an original story with original ships and planets, themes etc.
     
  23. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    "The Jedi must end." So is Luke saying it's time for the Jedi to evolve into something new?
     
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  24. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I will post more of my thoughts later.

    The trailer exemplifies the somewhat "same" feeling as the last trailer(and movie).

    The visuals and cinematography look very good and you can tell that the quality is quite high, might I add. Yet still incredibly uninspired and typical. By that I mean the visuals. I know the movie hasn't been out yet, and I am still very open to watching the movie and being wrong about everything I said.

    As it stands....Nothing has quite captured my eye In terms of unique artistry. Imagery however seems to have greatly improved. Including shot composition.

    I have slightly of higher hopes for this than TFA and R1.

    I won't go over it all again but I already feel like the days of the Unique storytelling(with amazing groundbreaking visuals)in SW has waned since the Disney transition. Hate and disdain does not envelope me but disappointment and skepticism is starting to seep.
     
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  25. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001

    I suspect his view will be that the Jedi have too much "temptation" and can't be trusted with the power that the Force gives them (remember he has had to deal with his father falling from light to dark and now his nephew has gone the same way) So because of this he thinks the Jedi have got to go the same way as the Sith (IMO)

    Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin's reactions will be fascinating... And of course will whatever relationship he develops with Rey, plus his inevitable confrontation with Ren, make him reappraise his "Last Jedi" view by the end of the film?
     
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