PT PT Forum - TFA: Discussing the FILM (characters, plotlines) - Spoilers Allowed

I hate to point out that the EU is no longer canon and there are not a lot of CANONICAL Tales are set in the Prequel Era right now, and judging that Disney seems to be milking OT Nostalgia for all it's worth I don't see that changing.

 

All of it trashed by Disney so they don't have to be "Constrained".

 

To be fair Abrams isn't in charge of the marketing. And just because he's friends with Pegg doesn't mean anything. My best friend and I don't always agree on movies.


Abrams, in other interviews, has come across as preferring the original trilogy but has always at least respected what George did in the prequels (unlike, say, Simon Pegg). And he makes some good points about who usually prefers what--kids that grew up with the prequels prefer them more, and folks who grew up with the original trilogy tend to prefer them (though it's not always as cut and dry as that, of course). He knows this from first hand experience--his kids grew up with the prequels, and for them, their hero is Anakin, not Luke.

 

Er yeah Disney have trashed the PT & TCW. Keep playing the victim card. We're used to it around here.

Good point...apart from the 3 movies, the 121 episodes of TCW & new canon material still being released like the Obi-Wan & Anakin comic series. Take all of that out & you're right, barely any PT material.

 

Looks like DD needs to become JediUpover and stop baiting.

 

Responding to comments isn't baiting. We also have mods to police such things. Unless you're auditioning for the position?

 

Darth>CONVERSION=Jedi
Down>Conversion=Up
under>CONVERSION=Over

If one were to create a quantum existing realty, this would be the result.

I guess you don't get the joke do you?

 

I get it now. Not sure it's one of your best though

 

Hey Ezon! Most SW fans love TFA. This is a fact. Tbh, I'm sorry for those who do not. Truly. Things will get better for them, hopefully. I'm a saga fan and have no issues with anyone, so when you quoted my post, you must have been thinking of someone else. I would love it if we could all be happy about this and sing Leia's tune from the Holiday Special.
Also, I have no idea what else you're saying here or in your quantum post about "Jedi Up Over" or whatever you directed at my Aussie friend. Get some rest my friend and drink lots of water. Peace my brother!

And to the triple posting dude.
There is a lot of PT material to enjoy as has been mentioned in many posts by several knowledgeable posters.
For the record, Disney does not decide what is canon for me and I suggest you enjoy all of the SW EU you wish to explore and not let corporations tell you what is valid or invalid.

 

You misunderstand me Dags, but thats alright, you a classy man. I can't be mad at you

 

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. You are an intelligent man. I'm not mad at you either. Let us be civil and respectful when we disagree or misunderstand.

In the interest of keepin' it real, I'm going to view my TFA blu ray right now and watch with a detractors eye. See if I can resist the call to the Dark Side.

Edit: Well, the first 10 minutes of TFA are gangbusters. Equal to anything in the saga. The music cue when Kylo's ship arrives is wicked. Poe's emotion with BB-8.
Finn's struggle under the helmet. Village raid. Scary and brutal stuff here. Ren... Reminds me of Anakin on Tatooine in AotC and on Mustafar in Revenge of the Sith!

 

ridiculous garbage.

 

Yeah - I agree with that. The beginning is top drawer. For me it begins to wobble with them struggling to keep the Falcon in the air - which is a good metaphor for what happens with the rest of the movie.

thejeditraitor strong words.

Simon Pegg stared in a whole t.v. series exploring 'phantom menace pain', was given spreads in SFX to vent his hate, is completely ungrateful to Lucas in his autobiography despite being given jobs and tickets by his company, publicly offends those that enjoy the films time and time again, yet was a consultant on the new film.

It would be 'ridiculous garbage' to assume that, taking JJ's comments about 'reclamation' at face value, that there was not at least the teeniest tiniest bit of overlap in their views about Lucas's other work.

To strong a choice a words - not a reasonable argument. And before people come chiming in with examples of JJ's fondness for those films expressed as personal first hand enjoyment {tumbleweed}, I said teeniest tiniest.

 

Just bcs people are friends you can't assume any "overlap" in their views. In any case, who cares whether Abrams likes the PT or not? Time for people to move past their Abrams fixation. He's merely the director of one of the 9 Saga movies. He's really not a big deal when it comes to Star Wars. People talk as if he's the new Lucas. He's not, he's the new Marquand.

 

watch it before it gets taken down.

 

Yeah you are right. At the time I remember Marquands face on the front of every magazine, all carrying a story inside about how now they were going to do it his way now and bring the magic back. Describing how he was in tears on set, because...Han Solo....The Falcon !

 

Oh you mean the media coverage now is 100 times more extensive than 1983 to due to dozens of additional publications & the internet?

Yeah I agree. Good point.

 

Cute.

 

They want a sure thing, and they figured OT nostalgia is the most profitable route for them. Marketing main job is to analyze consumers to figure out ways to make them buy buy buy. It is down to a science and they use psychology and sociology in their planing, they know to make people unhappy with their current state and offer a solution to achieve a desired state which the marketers have designed.

Being a Disney stockholder myself, I can tell you it is a shady company. For example their new Mymagic+ system in Disney World, they outright said in Bloomburg Business News that the system's main point is to keep people from going to other Orlando attractions by abridging guests with ride reservations they will be reluctant to lose by going to Universal or Sea world which I find scabby. In other words Mymagic+ is intended to further trap guests at WDW so they don't go to their rivals.

 

Well the great thing is, it didn't only result in profit. The movie was incredibly well received, by SW fans in particular. Fan polling on sites including this one shows that. Seems it was a win-win for almost everyone, including Disney's balance sheet.

 

What the **** does how much money the film makes and how much the fans and critics love it supposed to mean to me? Because I have no idea really. This seems to be the go to for all things TFA related. I have seen a number of legit well thought out criticisms of the film only to be met with,

"Well you're in the minority because the majority of fans and critics loved it"
"The film is now the #1 box office earner in North America"

And other similar shill drivel. I mean what do these people that say this stuff think? That I will just turn around and say, well since the MAJORITY loves the film and critics also praise the film to the high heavens I guess I have no choice but to love it Oh, and it made a lot of money at the box office too.

Like individual opinion counts for nothing. Well for me the day I become some mindless follower will be my last. But that day will never come so I have no fear of that anyway. This is all I see all over every other forum I visit. It is pure "majority syndrome" in full effect.

Dealing with a TFA lover is like dealing with that kid from the movie A Christmas story. That scene where Ralphie is in line to see Santa and the kid in front of him wearing the pilots cap with the goggles on that says to Ralphie, "I like the Wizard of Oz" and "I like the Tin Man"

If anyone is familiar with that scene they will understand it. If not, I highly recommend watching it to see what I mean.

Because most of the people that praise this film give nothing more than superficial answers to this non dimensional film. Even people that love this film and the critics as well usually acknowledge the rehash aspect of it. Yet they say how great the film is? So to anyone that can call TFA a rehash and still say it is great, doesn't have the right to criticize any other rehash films when they say it is bad based on the fact of that film being a rehash. Because if TFA gets a pass for being a blatant rip off of ANH no other film should get panned for being a rip off. But then again, what does the majority know?

Oh yeah they had to rip off ANH to remind fans of what made SW special. If these so called "fans" have to be reminded of what made SW special, then these "fans" didn't really find SW to be all that special to begin with. I loved SW from the beginning all the way through to the day Lucas signed it over to Disney. And everything that was special to me about it remained special from day one to this very moment as I type this and till my final day. That SW specialness is something that who has experienced it can never ever forget. Regardless if there was something I didn't like was made, SW was and is special to me. I don't like TFA, but everything that made SW special to me never went anywhere. I sure as hell never needed to be "reminded" of what made SW special to me.


But there are winners and losers to this as much as I hate to say it. For me, I am on the losing side here. By that I mean I am losing interest in furthering my love of SW. I will always love the SW that Lucas gave to the world. But this new Disney SW is really going out of its way to make me despise it. I don't need corporate pandering to appreciate something. I don't need reassurances to appreciate something. I do appreciate art that is done with good intentions and the right reasons. Not for reasons such as, bringing jaded fans back or making sure there isn't much CGI in a film. That is not how art with love and care is made. That is how a product is guaranteed by a corporate entity with financial interests at stake.

 

Andy Wylde Well said above! These were the main reasons why I had many problems with the promotion and the marketing approach for this movie, even if I liked TFA.

You see everyone, this is the similar reason why it has become shameful for some fans (perhaps even many) to say that they like the prequels because the MAJORITY of the rabids on the internet have been yelling for years that they despise those movies... Or why, gradually, it has become difficult for somebody to say they disliked aspects about TFA...

I remember having a discussion a few months ago with the people above about how the negativity of some people, who have been keeping yelling about how Lucas ruined Star Wars with the prequels, could influence the opinion of others and the rating they give to those movies. But those people have just been denying it and simply said that I should just take those opinions and ratings about the prequels as facts, without any further analysis...

The funniest thing now is that those same people above, who told me that before, are now keeping responding to others, who don't like TFA, by saying that the new movie is beloved by everyone and is acclaimed by critics and, even if they've never said that directly, others who think differently, should also think the same as everyone else.

And they still think that group thinking can't influence other's opinion when themselves are pressing so hard when someone differs?

 

@ SW Saga Fan Amazing how the tables have turned, eh?

But this was one of my biggest gripes about what is going on with the state of affairs with the SW franchise. I see nothing but post after post of "the majority loves it and the minority hates it" garbage in response to valid criticisms of the film. This is a tactic that is being used to shut down criticisms of TFA. Because other than what some "majority" thinks or box office totals, I have been having a tough time finding any good counter criticisms being brought up. The excuse of it being 1 of a planned trilogy doesn't fly either. Because TPM was also a 1 of a planned trilogy but that didn't stop the criticisms now did it?

So as far as I am concerned TFA isn't getting off the hook because TPM wasn't awarded that luxury. But I down skip down the beaten paths. I blaze my own trails and I don't follow any opinion, majority or minority other than my own opinion. And I am damn proud of my own opinions and I stand by my opinions.

I can't unfortunately look past all the nonsense that was presented in this film. Especially the way they marketed it and promoted it. They were too busy trying to "recapture" the magic that character development and story took a back seat for this one. And for me, as far as SW is concerned, story is first and foremost and everything else is second. I don't need some corporate entity trying to buy me off with some nostalgia. That is just cheap.

See what some folks don't realize is that Disney can't recreate magic. Magic just happens when one least suspects it. That is the real magic of it. They need to be making new magic for a new generation and not going up to the attic and dusting off the old magic for round 2 for the old timers. It seems that they aren't looking into the long term investment and instead focusing on the short term. Not a good strategy if you ask me. Nostalgia and cheap knock off magic can only take it so far before more people realize what really is going on.

 

I'm often surprised by the amount of anger some SW fans have, whether PT, OT or ST fans.
I've seen it at work in every direction, PT>ST or OT>PT, whatever combination.

What is baffling is how any SW fan feels the need to rip apart one of the seven SW films.
Yes, debate and discussion are great, but the level of vitriolic hatred that sometimes gets leveled at any of the SW films by SW fans is truly astonishing.

I wrongly assumed that if someone dislikes something so much, they might prefer to avoid discussing it. I know I do. Certainly, they might not spend valuable moments of their precious life writing negative "essays" about it. I reckon negative attention is better than none.

Thankfully, I love all 7 SW films, so my SW discussions are typically happy ones.

 

Well I think the point is this. Individual opinion & general opinion are two completely separate factors. If you don't like a film then you have every right to criticize it. To explain why you personally don't like it. However...to me it would be a very different situation if I didn't like TFA AND I looked around saw that & the vast majority of fans did like it. Same if the opposite was true. If I thought TFA sucked & I also saw that polls & other ratings showed that 80% of fans agreed with me then I'd be calling for blood. Saying that the movie is a disaster. That Abrams should be shamed & removed from any association with SW. I think that would be a completely fair stance to take if the movie was broadly reviled. On the other hand, if I didn't like it but I saw that roughly 80% of my fellow SW fans did like it I'd have a different attitude. I'd simply realise that this movie didn't suit my personal tastes. No big deal, there's never been a movie in history that has pleased everyone. It's a pity that I'm one of those that it didn't connect with it but hopefully I'll like the next episode more. I'd articulate what I don't like about it but I wouldn't rant & rave about how terrible it is & pretend the movie was a debacle. I'd realise the world doesn't revolve around my own personal tastes. That's the scenario with TFA. If I didn't like it I'd criticise the content of the film but I'd also concede that the movie was a runaway success. Not financially, I mean in terms of the audience's love for the movie. Looking at all of the public & fan polling, including even here in the PT forum of all places, it's clear that TFA worked for as high a proportion of the audience as you could reasonably expect. That doesn't negate personal opinion of course. Not one bit. Just that IMO there should be a separation in judging a movie individually & then recognizing how well it worked for the whole audience.