Discussion PT/OT questions you hope Episode VII answers?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Jedi_Lantern, May 26, 2014.

  1. Hernalt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 2
    I approach that problem using the following logic. 1) It required some large number of Jedi Knights to protect, that is, maintain, a galaxy-spanning republic. It required one clever sith to reduce their number to vanishing, and replace that power structure to "protect", that is, maintain, a galaxy-spanning government. If you remove the one sith then you have remove all force-using "protectors", that, maintainers, of a galaxy-spanning government. Insofar as viewers accept Lucas' conceit that the Republic stood for a thousand generations without standing armies and navies, the new presence of a standing army and navy does not automatically meet the criteria of necessary and sufficient. It's Lucas' conceit. It does not exist in our world. The easiest result of a naval force scaled to 1000 star destroyers, suddenly minus the single strong sith maintainer (project leader), is that no single mortal leader, like a Grand Moff Tarkin, would be sufficient solely in their military leadership to maintain the Empire, and the Imperial territory would break up by infighting into several fiefdoms that were more properly sized to the capabilities of individual Imperial commanders. No one non-force using "emperor" would stay alive for long. Generals and Admirals would cross the Rubicon regularly. (If you are neglecting the Rebel Alliance's military force after Endor - they did lose a lot.)
    Iron_lord likes this.
  2. Hernalt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 2
    Insightful.
  3. Victorian Time Traveler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1

    I understand...but The Clone Wars is borderline EU to me.
    Primetime_Jedi and Jcuk like this.
  4. K Ran Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2014
    There were early rumors of both the emperor and vader returning, which sounded awful.

    The more I think about it, It's hard for me not to imagine that the Emperor did not experiment with cloning himself and/or Vader. Beyond that, there is the Plagueis story. Maybe we find out Shmi was a Sith experiment and one of many clones planted around the galaxy with the intention of bearing a force sensitive child.

    I think I could live with Luke stumbling upon a cloning facility with a bunch of frozen, mindless, Anakin/Palpatine bodies that were ready to be "used."





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  5. Kraven Head Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    Am going to venture that cloning, like it or not, will play a role in the ST.
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  6. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4
    Live with, but have nightmares forever?
  7. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    And if Disney/LFL felt the same way about it, that would mean something. But they don't - as far as they're concerned, that series, that story arc, and that explanation are as canon as ANH itself. As far as the company and Lucas himself are concerned, it's not EU, borderline or otherwise; it's absolute 100% canon. Probably the least effective answer to that immovable fact is to then just say "I don't care; it's not in MY canon."

    Is it your right to do so? Of course it is. But it isn't mature. I never did that, even with the PT, which I had good cause to dislike - in part due, like you, to the midi-chlorian issue. To do that would have been childish. It would have been the fanboy equivalent of just sticking one's fingers in their ears and humming real loud: "I'm not listening! You can't make me! LA-LA-LA-LA-LAAAA!" That's wasted energy. The fact doesn't change because of one's personal feelings. One might as well point at a rock and say "I don't accept that as a rock; it's a stick of butter." The rock just sits there, unimpressed and unchanging.
  8. Julian Skywalker-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 1
    Ignoring things you don't like is immature now?
  9. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    If those things you don't like are now effectively the law of the land, yes, it is.
  10. Julian Skywalker-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2014
    star 1
    Law of the land? It's a work of fiction, it's a matter of preference. It's not something hugely serious.
  11. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, the fact that C-3PO and R2-D2 go on an important shopping trip and become kidnapped by Cad Bane is certainly not a bright or important part of the canon. :p
  12. Hernalt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 2
    When Timothy Zhan decided to clone the Emperor it was outright treason. The narrative stupidity and cowardice was incalculable. But then Lucas foregrounds the whole clone thing, so now if Zhan made an effort to depict Palpatine cloning himself, which *entirely misses the self-serving character of the Sith*, it would not be as faulty. I'll always have trouble with timely narratives which hold one anachronism variable constant (sword sorcery castle steed princess) so that they may dial in and modulate some other variable, but that is the way of space opera. (E.g. : There is no way in the modern world that you'd have a protocol droid, of singular appearance, matched up with an Astromech droid, of singular appearance, waltz their way through 60+ years without facing 1. the vicissitudes of life that send friends on their separate ways and 2. the ceaseless competition from new and improved models and configurations of droids following what is in our world called Moore's Law. That variable in our world is held constant in SW-land.) Since we *do have very effective contemplations of cloning (Orphan is the New Black), it is defensible to get more treatment, whether this is thoroughly annoying or not, in new SW. The fact that it is *not anachronism, but timely and topical and is treated as a true variable, stands out like a sore thumb next to fantasy anachronisms.
    Last edited by Hernalt, Jun 10, 2014
  13. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Sorry to say, it's Tom Veitch who takes the bullet for that one, not Tim Zahn.
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    And report has it that the character was originally going to be someone in a Vader suit, Lucas nixed that, but agreed to "possessed Palpatine clone"
    K Ran likes this.
  15. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    If a clone of Palpatine, Anakin or Darth Plague (whatever his name is?) turns up in Episode VII I will literally get up out of my seat and leave the cinema lively.
    TheFoot likes this.
  16. Hernalt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 2
    Ok. I looked up C'baoth and stand corrected. Zhan had language in there directly referring to the Emperor and directly appropriating for C'baoth the sensorial intellectual property and blow-by-blow representations of the Emperor. Zhan cloned Lucas' Emperor, even if the character Zhan 'created' was not in narrative form an in-universe clone of Palpatine.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  17. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    What was Qui-Gon smoking when he made up all that stupid pudu about "midichlorians?"
    vinsanity and darklordoftech like this.
  18. TheFoot Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2011
    star 2
    It was 'covered?' So they shouldn't use the idea again? Don't understand that logic.
  19. Master Raze Golladio Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2014
    It's not that it shouldn't be used again, I just meant that you seemed to want to see the places strong with the Force being explained away, and all I said was that the canon explanation was given in TCW's Mortis and Yoda arcs in season 6, that's all. ^_^
    InterestingLurker likes this.
  20. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Force ghosting...is it really a new discovery, or a forgotten secret? Or better yet, was it something that the unbalancing of the Force had created which hindered the Jedi from ever returning in spiritual form, and not something that was never done before?
  21. DARTH-FURBABY Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2004
    star 2
    Anakins secret origins is something I, too, am bothered by so I'll share this with you:
    As was explained in ROTS, Palpatine was the mastermind of just about everything in the PT. I can well imagine that at a certain point in the past (pre-saga) he would have wanted to fashion for himself a tool to be used to eventually destroy the Jedi Order. Enter Shmi Skywalker. We don't know anything about her past beyond her life on Tatooine and we need not speculate on how she became pregnant with Anakin, but in watching the movie I can't help but get the feeling that she may have been TOLD to lie to the Jedi regarding Anakins origins, by order of, you guessed it, Palpatine or his messenger (Darth Maul?). In other words, I think it would have placated some of the shock and offense of the "virgin birth" revelation if the audience was somehow informed that this was merely disinformation given to the Jedi.
  22. SgtTimBob Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2014
    star 1
    So you are saying Palps banged Shmi prior to TPM, and then told her that one day some Jedi might show up asking questions, but that she should just claim immaculate conception. That's a bit of a tall order haha.
    ForgottennJedi1986 likes this.
  23. loki41872 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 4


    Most people who go to see these movies will have never seen the clone wars cartoon. A LOT of Star Wars fans I know haven't even watched it, or only casually. Hell, I've been a SW fan since 1977, and I haven't even watched it. I know it's "Officially" canon, but I don't think that will last. I suspect the only canon that is safe is the films. If Disney decides to do a spin off movie set during the clone wars era, and it would be a fantastic movie, but contradict whole swaths of TCW, don't think disney won't kick that down to "Legends" in a hot minute.
  24. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    PT Questions:
    Who are the Skywalkers?
    Was Anakin born outside the Republic by someone's/something's design?
    Is Plagueis dead?

    OT Questions:
    Who or what organizations supplied funds and materials to the Rebel Alliance?
    Who were the 'powerful friends' Leia was referring to when speaking to Jabba?
    Who were Palpatine's greatest enemies?
    Is Palpatine dead?
  25. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4

    How but drugging her asleep then doing in-vitro.