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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT PT vs TCW

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slicer87, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    I agree, it was a flimsy excuse to explain away the sudden addition of a "cousin Oliver" character. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CousinOliver

    MST3K made fun of this trope:

     
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Again, how is it flimsy when Lucas never specified if newly minted Jedi didn't have Padawans?
     
  3. Sepra

    Sepra Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 14, 2016
    They probably used the same logic in pairing Ahsoka with a new Knight that they used when they paired the tough job of training an older padawan in Anakin with very newly minted Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi.
     
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  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Still having some issues with the character of Jedi General Pong Krell in the fourth season of TCW.

    It would appear that the Jedi didn't bother to check whether the people they chose to serve as generals really qualified for the job.

    (and why was Dogma let away? Did he accept the role of the only clonetrooper being responsible?)
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    I don't think it was a matter of determining if the Jedi were qualified. But rather that the Jedi didn't keep better track of their members exploits outside of the Temple. The Clonetroopers never filed reports stating that Krell was using dangerous and unnecessary tactics. In fact, in real life, this sort of thing happened in the past. That some commanding officers would pull the kinds of tactics that Krell used, but the grunts wouldn't say anything because it'd be covered up and forgotten by the CO's friends who are of equal or higher rank. It took someone like Rex to do something about it, despite the risks.
     
  6. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013

    Apples to oranges, Obi-Wan was a model Jedi who even scolded his master for not following the rules or obeying the council, while Anakin is a troubled Jedi who the council has had doubts and concerns about since day one, such as Mace believing "the boy can't handle it."
     
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    1. Obi-wan is hardly a model Jedi as Yoda points out that he's taking on too many of Qui-gon's traits. Qui-gon says that he is headstrong and still had much to learn of the Living Force. While Obi-wan would point out that he was reckless as well, when he was Luke's age.

    2. Mace says that of Anakin when he's just days away from turning. Not three years earlier when he said that the Council is confident in Anakin going it alone to Naboo with Padme, and by assigning Ahsoka to Anakin a few months later.
     
  8. TheMoldyCrow

    TheMoldyCrow Jedi Master star 3

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    Jun 16, 2015
    TCW for me is way more enjoyable than the PT. I'd honestly sooner watch the worst episodes of TCW over either TPM or AOTC.
     
  9. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    1. He wasn't perfect, but he was way more inline with Jedi ideals and dogma that Qui-Gon was, hence why Qui never made it on the council but Obi did, Obi even stated so. Obi followed the code well enough to climb the Jedi ladder unlike his master.

    2. As far back as their first meeting, there was a rift between Anakin and the council unlike with Obi. It was a contributing factor towards Anakin's turn, that the council never had complete faith or trust in him, which doesn't fit with thrusting a padwan onto him. A major plot point of the PT is how the council kept giving Anakin the cold shoulder and were wary of him, the main reason Anakin was even allowed to join the order was because of pity points from being Qui's dying wish.
     
  10. PymParticles

    PymParticles Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 1, 2014
    For me The Clone Wars is weird, because I find it really embodies the extremes of the PT. When it's good it's good, but when it's bad it's awful. You'll get episodes or even multi-episode story arcs that are nothing but the worst aspects of the prequels, but only those aspects and for the entire runtime, but then you get the same deal for the good aspects/good episodes.

    I'd just like to clarify that I do in fact like the show for the most part, and I enjoyed binge watching it when it hit Netflix a couple of years ago. I just find it to be wildly inconsistent in both its tone and overall quality, an aspect I feel it derives from the PT but exaggerates significantly depending on the episode. It contains some of the most juvenile and obnoxious material in the entire series, but also some of the most mature and thoughtful.
     
  11. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    PymParticles wrote

    It contains some of the most juvenile and obnoxious material in the entire series, but also some of the most mature and thoughtful.

    Which is funny, because that's how I (an old fossil) feel about the PT but to a much lesser degree about TCW (a bit too much fantasy in some episodes for my liking but in general great moral tales).

    Unlike either OT or PT The Clone Wars enriches the galaxy far, far away with plenty of life and flavor.
     
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  12. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 25, 2014
    That's also why I prefer the films over the show. I know some say the PT doesn't feel like Star Wars but I feel TCW fits the bill more then the PT, as some episodes just felt out of place and just weird. I still like the show though not as much as I use too.
     
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  13. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Not what happens in AotC. In fact, the Council seemed to trust Anakin more than Obi-Wan himself.

    The Council didn't give the cold shoulder to anyone. They simply didn't attend to Anakin's requests because a) they weren't obliged to do so and b) they went against the Jedi way.
     
  14. Darthman92

    Darthman92 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2016
    I do think TCW is a good show, is fun to watch, and some of its choices do make sense for long-term viewing/storytelling. (I have only seen episodes of it here and there and hope to watch through the whole thing on Netflix soon) But in terms of canon, honestly there are some things I'd just rather not have when watching through the movies themselves. (Keep in mind of course that I'm just speaking for my own opinion and not trying to bash anyone else's) Like say Maul surviving TPM, or the greater individualization of the clones that necessitated chips to physically force them to turn on the Jedi as I prefer the idea of them being the living representation of some of the Jedi's flaws who willingly just do as they're told because they were brought up/programmed that way from birth. (being conformist, not forming strong attachments which allows them to turn on their comrades without batting an eye, etc) Though I can see how you'd want stronger and or a variety of personalities for them if you're watching it on a week-to-week basis.
     
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  15. Darth Plagueis the Wise

    Darth Plagueis the Wise Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2016
    I love both the Prequels and TCW. However, if I had to choose one over the other, I would unquestionably choose the Prequels.

    As an aside, I don't see how TCW can be compared to the Prequels. They were never in direct competition. In my mind, TCW is a supplement to the Prequels. It enhances the films, particularly RotS (I'm looking at you, Order 66 sequence). I couldn't imagine a world without the Prequels, while I can imagine a world without TCW (even if I loved every second of it).

    -Darth Plagueis
     
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  16. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    We must be watching different versions of AOTC then.


    I don't think they were intended to be in competition either, but that a segment of the fan base and Disney has placed them in that situation by jamming them into a single continuity when they were never intended to be and favoring the TCW's version of events over the PT's version of events. IE some imposed TCW > PT which I disagree with.

    Thought of another contradiction between TCW and the PT. TCW version of AATs lack the anti-personal blasters, have a different nose design than their film counterparts, larger caliber cannon, smaller front dish, smaller missile ports, and different style side guns.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    TCW version is a more simple design for easier animation.
     
  17. CIS Droid

    CIS Droid AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

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    Oct 21, 2015
    Thats nitpicky, and why did you use a toy for reference?
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    They express trust in Anakin more than once in the movie. By giving him a mission alone and when talking to Obi-Wan in the halls of the Temple.

    It's stylized. That's not a contradiction, but arguing over minutae.
     
  19. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    And it could also be a variant design. It is 10 years after the last time we saw an ATT.

    But I agree in that arguing about such minor details is pointless. It would be like writing off a cartoon for not having fully lifelike appearances.
     
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  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Apparently.

    OBI-WAN: "I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet."

    YODA: "The Council is confident in its decision, Obi-Wan."

    MACE: "The boy has exceptional skills."

    OBI-WAN: "But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him, well, arrogant."

    YODA: "Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Hmm. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."

    MACE: "Remember, Obi-Wan, if the prophecy is true... your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance."

    Except that George Lucas said that the show was in continuity to the movies. So he intended for the show to be part of the PT and the Saga as a whole. Disney and the fan base haven't done anything other than follow Lucas on his own word.
     
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  21. Tackelberry

    Tackelberry Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 28, 2014

    Or you know, one is from TPM and one is 10 years later. Jesus, can you find anything more to complain about?
     
  22. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Tackelberry

    I can.
    Please do not speak down to other users like that
     
  23. AshiusX

    AshiusX Jedi Knight star 3

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    Feb 7, 2016
    An another sort of discrepancy I've found when Obi Wan goes to fight and end
    Grievous on Utapau . Grievous tell Obi Wan he is trained in the ''Jedi Arts by Count Dooku''. That makes it seem like Obi Wan didn't know that Grievous was trained in light-saber combat or Grievous didn't know that Obi Wan knew he was trained in light saber combat. Both parties have fought each multiple times over the course of TCW.
    I don't think this conversation should have happened. Maybe they could change it to ''Jedi scum, did you forget I am trained in the Jedi Arts by Count Dooku''. In a later edition.
     
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  24. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    TCW had some storylines I didn't enjoy (the Mortis arc). I am one of the few who didn't like it. But for the most part, TCW added more to the prequels and showed us the Clone War action we always wanted to see. I think it is a nice element to SW overall
     
  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015

    I agree with you. I feel the same way.