Public Moderator nominations/voting thread

Discussion in 'Communications' started by KnightWriter, Sep 22, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Not if it's a popularity contest.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but it IS a popularity contest anyways. You can't get promoted to mod if no one knows who you are.
  2. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    If no one knows who someone is, I would question how much that person has done in a particular forum or community. If you post intelligently, contribute to the community and are helpful, then you will be known.
  3. Raincloud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 5
    uuh... Can I get onto voting now? And do I do it by Forum?



    Raincloud
  4. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    I probably missed this part, but...







    I think the normal posters should be allowed to nominate who they want. THEN, the AC trims it to a figure, let's say 10. These lists are then passed to the higher ups, who choose the Mods.



    That way, EVERYONE gets a say, but it isnt one huge popularity contest.
  5. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "No, because they probably have a better idea of what their job here is like better than you do."

    How many Americans (or, for those in other countries, insert your country here) have any idea what it's like to be President? Or Senator? Or a congressman? Or a governor? Or a mayor? (Or whatever relevant positions apply to your country.) Yet, despite that, we get to vote. What a crazy system. Voting for people you think best represent you and who you think would make the best decisions. Insanity!

    "Second part, I said I trust people with authority not with colors, get it right."

    Why do you trust people with authority? Just because?

    Amazing.
  6. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    //agrees with Amazing again.

    And Reaper, I had thought that the method that you speak of was going to be implemented, at least on an experiemental basis. That was how it was left a couple days ago. It seemed to be the best plan of any outlined here.
  7. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    ...part of being popular means that people respect you, or find another good trait of yours.

    [face_laugh]
    Being popular has nothing to do with your abilities to be a responsible person or leader. Popularity comes from having a sense of humor, being the 'easy' girl in school, or kissing enough ***. Very, very few people seriously evaluate the morality of a person or how dependable and responsible they are before they befriend them.


    Moderators in the past that have went to off JC boards and ranted about JC members that get on there nerves. Nothing wrong with it.

    I love how the people who are defending it are just the ones who are guilty of it.

    No, I don't trust anyone, nod or not, who goes offboard to bash and flame JC members. Because as history has shown, they don't just innocently rant, they take it further. Whether its gathering in chatrooms to harass others directly or plotting ways to get mods demoted, they are not just casually discussing their frustrations.

    I post at a board with 7 former and current mods. Not once has any single one of them flamed a JC member, even when JC members attacked them. They have my respect for their restraint and self control. If you are so pissed off at someone that you feel the need to disfigure their picture, or send hateful PMs and email, or insult their personal lives, then its time to turn off the computer and go for a walk. Responsible and respectable people find better ways to relieve stress.


    If you post intelligently, contribute to the community and are helpful, then you will be known.

    But that doesn't mean that all 'known' people are known for being helpful or contributing. barry has 371 people watching him. He's well known. And how about Darl_Lord_Erik. He only had 70 something people watching him when he got the job, comparable to Bria's 150+. Does that mena since he is less well known that he is less deserving or capable than her? Or less capable than any of the other regs in YJCC who are more well known?


    Yes we currently have mods with questionable judgement. Mods who ban people for the word 'ghey,' cyber cheat on their wives, hit on underage girls and offer them gifts, spam threads and flame, and allow friends to do the same. Do I respect those people? Not in the slightest. Do I trust their judgement when picking new mods? Hell no. But there are a lot more equally dispicable regular members and I don't trust them to pick the newest mods, either.


    This is the scenario as I see it. I'm gonna pick on Amazing because he is both well known in JCC and active in Comms.

    Now, if he were nominated, most people who vote for him are going to know him from his activity in YJCC. They aren't going to really think about if he participates in Communications or even cares about policy changes and such. They could even vehemently disagree with all of his opinions. But most YJCC regulars aren't active in Comms, so they don't know where he stands. Just how many members do we have who are regulars to Comms? 50? 100? Compare that to the size of YJCC. There is no way there are enough informed members to make an informed vote. And if Amazing won that vote, it's a 50/50 chance that he would be a good mod. (I don't know him well to have an opinion either way)

    There is no way to make all the members make informed votes. There will always be some that do take it seriously, and some who resort to 'eny-meeny-miny-mo.' I bet a few mods have even done it before. I don't see really how this is improving the system. I think it would be better to make sure that the AC is able to force mods to be accountable for their actions. That would be how the regular members have a voice. If a mod picked by the mods screws up, then the reg members should have the right to determine if they should remain in their position.
  8. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Not once has any single one of them flamed a JC member, even when JC members attacked them. They have my respect for their restraint and self control.

    Great said Gay-Len, and very very true :).
  9. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    No.Public.Nomations.Or.Voting.

    Seriously, I am completely against any kind of public process in that sense. Too much politics and campaigning are possible.
    - KnightWriter

    Umm, isn't that kinda the point of the title? ?[face_plain]
  10. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'm okay with private nominations, as well as through the AC, but I'm against any kind of public nomination thread or voting.
  11. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    PMing a mod your nomination would be fine, but I do think the normal peeps should have a say at some stage.
  12. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I'm okay with private nominations, as well as through the AC, but I'm against any kind of public nomination thread or voting.

    Yeah, but based on the title, this is a public nomination/voting thread ...

    My head hurts :_|
  13. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Aren't we currently allowed to PM mods with nomination suggestions anyhow? As long as it isn't a "User_X For Mod!!1!" campaign type statement, anyhow.


    (Thanks, shinjo. :) )
  14. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I'm okay with private nominations, as well as through the AC, but I'm against any kind of public nomination thread or voting.

    I completely agree. I think thats the way it should but done, but I don't have any say in this really ;)

    (And your welcme, Gay-Len :) )
  15. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Basically, the regular users would send PMs to AC members nominating people. Out of those nominated, the AC would reduce the list to a certain number of candidates (not necessarily reflecting how many votes that candidate recieved), and then the mods would get to pick from that list. That way, all three groups get some sort of say in the issue.

    So this means that the nominations would only come from regular users, and the AC and mods couldn't throw a name on the list? Do I understand correctly?


    Why does everyone seem to think mods are infallible, but regular members are incapable of making decisions?

    I don't think that was stated, at least not by me. Both sides are fallible. This, however, does not change the reality of the many flaws that exists in a publicly held election.


    And I thought the decision had already been made to give the nominations (not the public voting) idea a try. Am I wrong about this?

    Perhaps I am mistaken, but isn't that what's being done through the Modfather currently?


    I am assuming you are using a 14.4 kbps modem. After all, it works fine, so there's no reason for you to change the way you do things.

    No, because 14.4 modems don't work just fine. They're horrid! 8-} (half-joking)


    So... how about a little constructive criticism? What makes it bad? Why? And I don't want to hear "it won't work" or "just because".

    Wait, are we talking the popular vote idea now, or the nominating idea?


    KK: It may prove to be better than the current system. And if it proves to be a failure, then you'll be able to back up your side with something that actually happened and not a "what if?"."

    Fire: That's not a sufficient answer.

    Agreed, we have quantifiable problems with the popular vote idea. Saying "let's just try it" when we know there are bugs to be worked out is unacceptable.

    Being popular has nothing to do with your abilities to be a responsible person or leader. Popularity comes from having a sense of humor, being the 'easy' girl in school, or kissing enough ***.

    This is one form of popular. Sometimes popular people are respected, but being popular does not equal being respected.
  16. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    If popularity equaled respect then all that would happen in the Mod Squad would be toga parties.

    GO 'CLONES!
  17. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    If popularity equaled respect then all that would happen in the Mod Squad would be toga parties.

    True, yet scary ;) I think some of the current Moderators could keep a hand on things, for awhile ;)
  18. Amidala_Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2001
    star 5
    Hello, all. May I give my opinion on this?

    I?m against having a public voting thread, though support the need for regular users to have a say in which individuals are selected to become mods. All the points brought up here are relevant ? and yes, it would become a popularity contest, unfortunately. Private nomination is a nice idea, though you?d still get those who considered it their duty to elect their friends.

    Even though I disagree with the whole popularity system, there are still those out there who may be ?well-liked? by their fellow board users and have brains at the same time. If you are admired, you?ve earned the respect of others by your actions, and therefore you?re moulded into the stereotypical label of the ?easy girl/boy at school, or badass?. It all depends.

    Forgive me if this idea has been suggested previously; but what if mods selected certain users to choose what individual they consider would do the job correctly? The mods would have to be cautious in deciding which should vote, and pick only a small group of varying people, with varying interests. I admit, there are some errors in the idea, but it stands as a suggestion.

    Thank you.

    Am [face_love]
  19. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "So this means that the nominations would only come from regular users, and the AC and mods couldn't throw a name on the list? Do I understand correctly?"

    If a mod or ACer wants someone nominated, they could send a PM to nominate that person. However, their vote wouldn't be worth any more than a vote from any other user.

    "Wait, are we talking the popular vote idea now, or the nominating idea?"

    Either one. There were problems stated with the popular vote idea, so I came up with the nominating (through the AC) idea.

    "Agreed, we have quantifiable problems with the popular vote idea. Saying "let's just try it" when we know there are bugs to be worked out is unacceptable."

    I agree. I don't want to see anything done until a good plan is agreed upon. I would hate to see a not-so-great idea get tried out, and fail, since that would defeat any chances of trying this out with a good plan. So, what are the bugs that need to be worked out? Do you have any ideas on how to work them out?

    I'm not pleading that any plan become a rule immediately. I think that everything needs to be discussed, until the bugs are worked out. Then, I hope the administration will at least consider what we come up with. I know my ideas aren't perfect. But it is often hard to see the flaws with your own ideas. The only way we'll be able to come up with the best plan possible is to get as much discussion as possible. By discussion, I mean good, serious discussion, not "That won't work". Why won't it work? What do you suggest?
  20. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    "Forgive me if this idea has been suggested previously; but what if mods selected certain users to choose what individual they consider would do the job correctly? The mods would have to be cautious in deciding which should vote, and pick only a small group of varying people, with varying interests. I admit, there are some errors in the idea, but it stands as a suggestion"


    Ok, so you're saying basically the mods select someone *they* like to pick all the mods as opposed to doing it themselves? No offence, but this really doesn't get us anywhere. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think all mods are corrupt, because I don't. I certainly think some of the mods are very fair with their promotion choices. However, there *is* some corruption and favortism going on. It's inevitable in any system. Hell, if I were a mod, I'd want my friends to be mods, too! So don't get the impression I'm saying there's something especially evil about the people in colors.

    However, I do think that the JC should be more fairly represented in the choices of the mods. This might help the mods, as well. They can't possibly know much about many of the members of the JC, so they might overlook some that would be very good mods, simply because they don't know them well.

    Therefore I think the nomination process should be open to any JCer (though I do like the rule that you must have been a JCer for say...6 months at the least). As for whether it's public or private, perhaps that's best, but I recommend the nominations are given through the AC, then discussed and whittled down there.
  21. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    OK, we?ve hit snarls in the proposed plan to use the AC to filter people in the choosing of a moderator in the Literature forum. Specifically, the AC is apparently mostly AWOL. So we?re probably not going through that route unless they start showing a lot more of a presence.

    I?ve proposed another idea in the Mod Squad that would get users more directly tied to the moderator selection process, but which wouldn?t involve the AC. If it pans out, I?ll keep this thread updated with what?s going on.
  22. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    Gandolf, select your new AC, and let the nominations/recommendations for the Lit mod filter through them to you folks; takes a total of a week to get new ACers selected?, then maybe another week for nominations filtered to the mod squad?

    Let's get going, folks; the light is green.
  23. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "Gandolf, select your new AC"

    Mods don't select the new AC members. The old ACers pick their replacements.

    Amazing.
  24. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    ok, ACers, time to select your replacements, so we can get this show on the road.

    Is this better? :D :D :D
  25. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
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