Public Moderator nominations/voting thread

But if we were to ask the JCC population right now for nominations for a JCC mod, I'm willing to bet a rather large sum of money that all of the people that we culled down for final consideration are going to be nominated. How does this affect things?

If the people we nominated that the people that you guys had in mind anyway happen to be the same, then that would be great. However, you know as well as I do that that scenario is not always the case, and I want to eliminate the chance of that happening.

It seems that many of you are understandably worried about the nominations turning into a popularity contest, and the reasons given basically revolve around the fact that you don?t think that the general membership has the maturity to vote correctly, and that they?d vote for their friends instead. I don?t deny that this could happen, but I also propose that if it did, it would be mostly due to a lack of understand and comprehension on their part. A solution to that, in my mind, would be simple: along with the nomination thread (or thread telling the users to PM a certain user), an announcement would be made impressing the importance of a correct vote. I think that making it clear that this freedom to nominate and have a say in their leadership could easily evaporate if not taken seriously. It would make clear that their friends may not necessarily have what it takes to be a moderator, and that they would have no right to complain if a wrong decision was made. Properly stressing the importance of being mature wouldn?t work for everyone, but I think that it could very well make a difference.

 

My post wasn't meant to be a hit on your group, it was just the only social thread I could remember the name for at the time. My thinking goes for all other social threads as well.

I'm glad that you weren't only attacking my group. We take great pride in our group and I'm ready to defend it, but you do bring up a good point. What's the difference between the BYS, Dark Lords, or Lightsiders asking for support of their friends and the ModSquad supporting nominations?

I understand some of you guys don't really like each other and that's cool. Just don't penalize the people that have earned other people's respect around the JC instead of just in the Mod Squad. People are popular because they respect other users, post well, and have worked to earn that respect. Perhaps the Mod Squad could take some lessons on people skills from the people that are popular around the JC.

 

First of all a purist would never moderate the EU forum. Second I wouldn't care since I don't venture into there, I would leave the voting for that forum up to those who frequent it since they would know who would be a good mod and who wouldn't.

AHA! There you go. Good point. Oh....nevermind who's voted in in this forum, hell I don't go there. You're right, a purist would never moderate there. But by your notion if someone gets the popular vote and these votes are open, who's to say the former MJHC members won't try anything? They do stick together afterall. And have complained about the moderators there.

Anyone who has said anything remotely close to that would not be voted in. Period. The regular members have more brains than that. And do you not think that current admins hold grudges? Because I'm sure there are quite a lot of people they would ban if they could. But they cannot? Why? Because they would no longer be a mod if they didn't something so totally stupid. So that point is moot.

LoL, yes, indeed? I don't think you clearly grasp how many of 'those' people are around. I'd like to think mods do not hold grudges. But I know they probably do. But I don't think it'd be so bad. There's the reassuring factor "I'm a mod and they're not" while not accurate, I'm pretty sure some 'grudges' have faded because of that rational. Whether any moderators would accept this idea or not.

I'm not totally clear on what you are trying to say here. But I'll try to let you understand my original intentions anyway. No one is saying that letting users vote would work. It might not. It might turn into a popularity contest. But I and a few others believe that there are enough level-headed, intelligent users that could make just as good of a decision on who should be a mod over a paticular forum as any mod or admin could. Why? Because a user who frequents said forum would know what needs that forum has and what person would adequately be able to suit those needs. If a mod was elected and abused power, they should be replaced. Wouldn't be the first time a mod went overboard, and the risk of that happening lies in both regular member voting and mod-only voting.

Yes, what I'm saying is why wait til it's too late to decide this is a bad idea? Hmmm....? I think there are mature posters out there. But at present, I have yet to see them clearly show themselves. To me at least. The thing is, at least with mod-only voting at least the mistake would be theirs. But with members voting, the moderators would blame the members and thus would take away that privledge. I don't have the highest opinion of some people I've seen here that they would actually vote in good faith.

 

Oh....nevermind who's voted in in this forum, hell I don't go there.

Yes that is exactly my point. I don't go into the EU forums. I don't know what goes on in there. I don't know any of the posters in there. I don't know what needs that forum has. Therefore, I do not believe I am qualified to make a decision on who should moderate that forum. However, on the forums that I DO visit, I DO know what they need, I DO know the members, and I DO believe I am qualified to make a decision on who should moderate them. This, of course, is just common sense.

As for the rest of that stuff, it's all moot because we don't know what kind of mod a person will be until they are in that position. And no, the administration does not know either. It is a gamble either way, a hope that the person you choose is able to adequately perform the duties of their position. Therefore, I believe that we as regular users have all the credentials to make balanced and smart decisions on who should be a mod, or at least be nominated as a mod, just as well as any current mod or admin.

 

Well Mik, you've got some good answers for the questions I have at the moment, and I do have to say that I'm willing to give it a trial under those kinds of conditions.

I'll now step out of this for a while so others can have a say and see what else they bring up.

 

Yes that is exactly my point. I don't go into the EU forums. I don't know what goes on in there. I don't know any of the posters in there. I don't know what needs that forum has. Therefore, I do not believe I am qualified to make a decision on who should moderate that forum. However, on the forums that I DO visit, I DO know what they need, I DO know the members, and I DO believe I am qualified to make a decision on who should moderate them. This, of course, is just common sense.

Yes, but who's to say some YJCC poster will not try to vote on other forums? Or try to influence people there? This idea has too many faults in it besides the popularity part. For one how are you gonna distinguish between a JCC poster and a EUC one? Or a lit poster from an OT one? Sure the mods can tell, but the people who go there changes from day to day. How would it be carried out? How will the mods take EVERY suggestion? Do they do a top ten or do they make a list of everyone? Who will control who's on the final cut? Will there be a rude brit judge? (that was a joke)

As for the rest of that stuff, it's all moot because we don't know what kind of mod a person will be until they are in that position. And no, the administration does not know either. It is a gamble either way, a hope that the person you choose is able to adequately perform the duties of their position. Therefore, I believe that we as regular users have all the credentials to make balanced and smart decisions on who should be a mod, or at least be nominated as a mod, just as well as any current mod or admin.


You like that word, don't you? Moot, it cannot be obsolete because it hasn't fully been discussed. Actually the moderators do know what kind of person their choice will be with power. In case you were wondering. I have a PM from Nathan on the issue of criteria. I'd post it, but I'd rather respect him and get permission first. You certainly do have a high opinion of yourself and the people you know, don't you? I'm rather unconvinced there.

 

How will the mods take EVERY suggestion? Do they do a top ten or do they make a list of everyone? Who will control who's on the final cut? Will there be a rude brit judge? (that was a joke)

This is a good point and I agree with you. We would need some sort of system. But that could be worked out if it were to be implanted. It would take careful planning and work, but in the long run it would be worth it because regular members would have a say in what changes are happening in their forum.

You certainly do have a high opinion of yourself and the people you know, don't you? I'm rather unconvinced there.

I know my forums, and I know who would do a good job there. How is that a high opinion of myself?

Sadly, this is my last post on this issue right now because I really have to go to bed due to the fact that my alarm clock will tell me that it is already time for class way before I would like it to.

 

This is a good point and I agree with you. We would need some sort of system. But that could be worked out if it were to be implanted. It would take careful planning and work, but in the long run it would be worth it because regular members would have a say in what changes are happening in their forum.


It will not work for the same reason the birthday idea would not work. There's just too wide of a scope out there.

I know my forums, and I know who would do a good job there. How is that a high opinion of myself?


I was referring to your one comment. Therefore, I believe that we as regular users have all the credentials to make balanced and smart decisions on who should be a mod, or at least be nominated as a mod,

 

It seems as though you?re overlooking the main points surrounding this proposal: the users nominate and the administration selects. The number of nominations that a certain person receives would in no way mean that they would definitely get the postion of moderator, rather, it would serve as a guide to the administration telling them how popular some of the choices were. Your argument about cross-board voting and inexperience would only be a stumbling-block for voting, I feel, not nominating. Here are some scenarios that you seem to imply would happen, and why they would not be as influential as you think:

---

[b][color=red]A YJCCer goes to nominate in EUC, having no experience there.[/color][/b]

A few things could happen in this scenario. Firstly this user could just nominate a random person to be troublesome. What bearing would this have on the final selection of mods? The administration would receive the list of candidates, and this non-serious nominee would have been nominated by one person. What would that say? Although the number of nominations isn?t an absolute indication of [i]anything[/i], it can at least be used to determine the serious nominations from the joke ones. Therefore, this joke nomination can be quickly considered and discarded.

The second instance could occur when the YJCCer is told by a friend who to nominate, because this ?friend? thinks that a large amount of nominations could sway favour to the nominee. While this is partly true ? a large amount of nominations would obviously be cause for the administration to look closely at a particular candidate, it wouldn?t mean that the other nominees would be out of the running. This should be stressed: [b]If a nominee has a "serious" amount of nominations, then each of those people should be looked at objectively, and selected or disregarded on their own merits.[/b][hr]

[hr][b][color=red]Popularity ?contests?[/color][/b]

Firstly, nothing will stop a determined user from conducting a popularity contest. However, I believe that this is somewhat preventable, as I said earlier (copied here):

[i] It seems that many of you are understandably worried about the nominations turning into a popularity contest, and the reasons given basically revolve around the fact that you don?t think that the general membership has the maturity to vote correctly, and that they?d vote for their friends instead. I don?t deny that this could happen, but I also propose that if it did, it would be mostly due to a lack of understand and comprehension on their part. A solution to that, in my mind, would be simple: along with the nomination thread (or thread telling the users to PM a certain user), an announcement would be made impressing the importance of a correct vote. I think that making it clear that this freedom to nominate and have a say in their leadership could easily evaporate if not taken seriously. It would make clear that their friends may not necessarily have what it takes to be a moderator, and that they would have no right to complain if a wrong decision was made. Properly stressing the importance of being mature wouldn?t work for everyone, but I think that it could very well make a difference.[/i]

In addition to this, I don?t doubt that harsh penalties will be implemented for anyone who is caught trying to initiate a popularity contest, which will hopefully deter users from trying anything foolish.[hr][/blockquote][b]Above all[/b], I do not think that the objections raised so far are serious enough to prevent a trial of this nomination system occurring. I appeal to the administration to seriously consider the positives and negatives and hopefully do the right thing.

 

The following is from my posty in the update thread.

Keeping the peace is everyone's concern, and everyone wants to ensure no one is runned over in the cross traffic. Improvements are as diverse as a 50 foot salad bar, so many different points of view.

I think mostly members are concerned that whomever is selected, is not selected by a barage of socks voting; that new selections come from across the board; that new selections are not partisan to certain groupies that could create a conflict of interest; that the new selections can be a balance on the board.

New selections need to become familiar with all the forums in the board, as most of us don't post in every forum all of the time, nor keep up daily with all the new threads, all hundreds of them. Becoming more knowledgeable of our diversity is a must. With increased knowledge, comes greater understanding, and hopefully more patience and quality assistance.

 

In regards to the whole "popularity contest" thing, I'd just like to take the fan fic awards as an example.

Every year the Fan Fic has it's own set of awards given out to members who have, by a popular vote, the best fic, character and so on. Now, every year the people who run the thread spend a lot of time trying to convince people that this is important and they shouldn't vote for their friends, but actually look at other fics that have been nominated. What happens? Every year it turns out a popularity contest and people vote for their friends and the person with the most friends wins.

I'm not saying that this is what would happen with the moderation voting, but it is something that definitely should be taken into consideration. Now, while you might not vote for the most popular person, or think that most people won't...they usually will.

I mean why look at all the candidates, evaluate them all seriously and decide when you can easily see that your friend is right there and can vote for them???? I'm not saying that everyone will do this, but I personally think that many people will.

Hugs
Kithera

Edit: Spelling

 

When considering a new moderator, the opinions of members of that particular forum do come into play. But so do our opinions as well. You have to be very careful when it comes to Internet voting and polls. When I see Internet polls and petitions for whatever topic, you have to put that in perspective. There are so many ways of influencing the outcome that you can't put a lot of stock into it. For the most part, a forum's popular member is often promoted. Why? Because typically a popular member is a helpful member, thoughtful poster, and a leader - all qualities we're looking for to begin with.

 

i like the idea of nominations going through the AC instead of directly into the mod squad. that way there is a sort of checks-and-balances system, so that the community can be sure that the mods aren't ignoring all suggestions (AC members can confirm that the people chosen were, in fact, nominated) but at the same time it's not public.

That groups votes "X" amount of times for a user they predetermined everyone vote for via email or another messageboard. This person would thus make it as a moderator because of the popularity contest.

i agree that would be a problem with voting, however it wouldn't be a problem with nominations. it doesn't matter how many times a person gets nominated, everyone nominated has the same chance of getting voted for.

The other thing I have to say for the moment is why can the current moderators not put in names of people to be nominated?

i don't see why they can't, because, after all, they are members of the community. however, i think mods should send their nominations in to the AC just like anyone else, and the names shouldn't be added after the fact, if you realize that people are left out. if you think someone is that good, nominate them off the bat, not as an afterthought.

 

Only speaking for myself, but I do get PM's from time to time from members recommending someone for a moderator.

 

So, is this thread for debating on the subject, or nominating? Because I've got a few people to nominate. ?







...and a Jango

 

The current system has been working fine since 1998 and hence I take on Truman's mantra with regards to this issue.

Besdies, most of the people do not give a toss who becomes a mod. Most of the people who do give a toss as to who becomes a mod, want to be a mod themselves.

It is hypocritical of the boards to cater for the "needs" and "democratic wishes" of a select few who are more than happy to bitch about every single member of the TFN/JC staff behind their backs and in other forums only for a possible venture into that shangri-la of theirs that is being a mod.

"I have no friends in the outside world, I can't get a girlfriend, nobody takes me seriously so why don't I start a massive hoo-ha about something trivial on a fricking Star Wars geek board so that I can become a mod and people will send me links to threads that are redundant!"

Pathetic fanboys!

 

Very well said, and too true of most members. Has anyone here ever started a "How do I become a mod?" thread. Totally embarrassing when you made it, but at the time it was a good idea. Like "Hey, maybe if I ask, and I know how to become a mod, I can become one." Basically if they know how to become a mod, they will do their best to impress members.

 

Ok, first off, no, it doesn't matter to the majority of the 70,000 members here. But it does matter a lot to the central members of the JC, at least, it has caused a great many problems. Trust between mods and members is decreasing.

Here's what I think should be done-

When a mod is needed for a forum, a sticky topic should be created, and the users given X amount of days to nominate people ( as previously stated). I think mods should be allowed to nominate as well, at least at this point. However, if there is a pattern that every members nominated by a mod is chosen, and never the ones nominated by members, well, then we'll have soemthing to gripe about on that issue. This process should be public.

Then, the mods can vote to decide which one shall be modded.

But wait! I just had a brainstorm...you all will probably jump on me, but what if the AC votes for the new mods? That is a way to ensure there will be no mass votings with socks, and at least I will then feel the entire process has been as completely fair as any of these things will ever be.

(and if someone else stated this idea before me, I'm sorry, I just skimmed the pages)

 

No.Public.Nomations.Or.Voting.

Seriously, I am completely against any kind of public process in that sense. Too much politics and campaigning are possible.

 

Politics will creep into any form selection process. But at least in private you can sorta keep it out for the most part.

 

The less political this place is, the better. There's already enough politics in my life without adding the worry that if you don't join one social group you won't have a friend to bail you out if you're banned for some BS reason.

No matter what, someone's going to be upset with a mod nomination; but this place would become totally lame if someone got modship based on WUL additions and social group rivalries.

 

No matter what, someone's going to be upset with a mod nomination...

That is so true.

You can make all the people happy some of the time.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time.

But you will never make all the people happy all of the time.

 

I am dead against this idea.

What is the point to bringing this idea in? Are we simply doing away with public campaigning? Because if what I understand is true then the proposal simply means that users have the ability to nominate but those nominations are under no garuntee(sp?) of being taken seriously by the Administration.

So.....you guys just want to be able to say who you think should be a mod without them being taken out of the running instantly? Cause I kind of like that way of thinking. Keeps the real candidates working hard and the show pony's looking....well......stupid.

Once again, what is the point of this? ?

 

Once again, what is the point of this?


I think it's the 'we have a voice' mentality. Whether it's taken seriously or not.

 

I say that the Mod for a specific forum should be nominated by the mods in that forum and then voted on by the members of the ModSquad.