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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC Queen Elizabeth II becomes UK's longest reigning Monarch

Discussion in 'Community' started by G-FETT, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, the intent was that it was something different -- the Constitution of the Year XII emphasizes that the government of the Republic shall be vested in an emperor, and the title used was Emperor of the French. The Imperial throne of France is not the same as the (Capetian) royal throne of France. But they're both aspirations to the sovereignty of France, which is the key part I think.

    After all, the whole argument behind making Napoleon an hereditary emperor is that it would block the Bourbons from returning. The thought was that by crowning the Republic, the Republic would be safe. And along those same lines, Louis XVIII always called Napoleon the "Usurper."

    During the Second Republic and especially after the fall of the Second Empire, things became even clearer with the Bonapartists grouped alongside the other monarchists and making arguments that the Bonapartist claim to the throne was more legitimate (on basis of popular sovereignty) than the Orleanist or Legitimist claims (who relied on more traditional arguments).

    So they aspired to different thrones because those thrones had different bases, but they were rival claimants to the sovereignty of France herself.
     
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  2. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    And then there's the "Merovingian heir" responsible indirectly for Dan Brown's career.
     
  3. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    thanks for clarifying. also, you mentioned that there is no legitimist heir despite that handsome, handsome man claiming to be such. why is that? did someone force a renunciation out of the main branch of the bourbon but not the orlean?
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, the last Legitimist heir was the Duke de Chambord (Henri, I think? Most French people are named Louis or Henri so it's a good guess anyway) during the early Third Republic. He was childless, and the royalists had this sort of grand bargain worked out -- the Orleanists would support the duke, and then when he died the Legitimist and Orleanist claimant would be the same person. It would've kept France a monarchy, but the fool refused to accept the tricolor flag and that was basically a deal-breaker for too may people in the French parliament. So the republican plurality was able to win the day.

    By the time he died, the Third Republic had established itself (to the extent that the tottering mess of the Third Republic was ever established) and the royalists had lost their parliamentary majority.

    The current "Legitimist" pretender, the Duke of Anjou, is a Spanish Bourbon (and a Carlist claimant, funnily enough) and the Spanish Bourbons were locked out by the Treaty of Utretcht: that branch of the Bourbons forever renounced the French throne. Present-day Legitimists basically say that it was ultra-vires and their claim to the throne comes from God, but that's goofy.
     
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  5. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002

    you do realize this is what normal people say about all of this monarchy stuff, tho?
     
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  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Oh, I know. That's how I underscore the point, because when *I* think it's goofy... :p