PT Question about Clone Army, Sifo-Dyas, and Order 66

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Master Agoraphobia, Nov 13, 2012.

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  1. Master Agoraphobia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    Hello everyone! Sorry if this is the wrong area of the boards, or if this has been discussed before.

    I'm just going to type out these questions as fast as I can so that I don't forget.

    Was it truly Master Sifo-Dyas that requested the Clone Army, or somebody else posing as him?

    If it was him, for what purpose? Why did he order it ten years prior? And why didn't he tell anybody about it?

    Was Order 66 planned all along? Did the Clone Army know they were to help out the Republic until the order was given? Or did they somehow get talked into turning their backs at some point?


    Thanks for reading that barrage of questions. And I appreciate any feedback!

    P.S.

    I know there is a Literature section on these boards, but while we're on the subject, is there any literature on Master Sifo-Dyas?
  2. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Order 66 - one of the commands memorized by all clone troopers as part of their training. Order 66 tells the clones to kill the Jedi if the Jedi ever were to betray the Republic. So, no turning involved - troopers all we just doing what they had been bred to do.
    I think all the Sifo-Dyas stuff can be found here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo-Dyas
  3. Master Agoraphobia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    But Darth Sidious gives the Order to the troops. I'm not following. Why would they listen to him? It was as if they were in league with Sidious all along.
  4. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Not Sidious. PALPATINE. The face and leader of the Republic, the sole purpose of the clones.
    The clones were bred to serve. They followed orders unquestioningly.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  5. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Sidious/Palpatine is pretty much interchangeable at point since they are the same person.
  6. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    Read Darth Plagueis by James Luceno.

    Both Sidious and Plagueis practically plant the idea of a Clone Army in his head, and Kamino. But it was his doing.
  7. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    But the clones didn't know about Sidious, nor did they really care. They did know that they had to serve the Republic, and that Palpatine was its leader.
    So I'm using Palpatine.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  8. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Whatever works for you bud.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    In the EU it appeared that some of the rank-and-file troopers had not heard of it.

    Sadly, we still don't know. A recent book strongly hinted that he placed the initial order, but stopped short of confirming it.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 13, 2012
  10. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    That is so weird. 66 should be one of the basic rules that everyone knows, just as all Jedi know the Code. That is so weird.
    Where did you get this from?
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  12. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Essential Guide to Warfare (published after Darth Plagueis which hints at it) states outright that Sifo-Dyas placed the order.
  14. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, I expect that the nature of Order 66 will be rectified by TCW (because as it is it doesn't make any sense and it of course doesn't make any sense that some clone troopers were unaware of the order).
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I did not know that. :)

    The same book said that it was not hardwired into them by the Kaminoans. It seems to have been primarily known to the clone commanders, who knew about it in all the sources I'm aware of, and who were shown in ROTS to be connected to the Chancellor by secure comlink. The Kaminoans may not have even known about it ( which would help to explain why none of them chose to helpfully mention that their army had a "kill own general" trigger ). The point of the clone army was that they were modified and conditioned to be receptive to orders in general, not necessarily that they were implanted with specific orders; orders could have been disseminated among the clone commanders at any time before ROTS ( or even before AOTC, as is alleged by Salvo ).

    I do believe that TCW will probably try to change things, but not for the better, I think.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 14, 2012
  16. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    But one odd thing is that the Clones use his Sith title of "Lord". As chancellor Palpatine he is no Lord but as Darth Sidious he is.
    The chancellor would be called "Chancellor" or "Sir" but the clones say "Yes, My Lord."
    That could suggest they knew him, not as Palpatine but as Lord Sidious.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
    V-2 likes this.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe it's like Senator Padme consistently being called "my lady" only in this case it's "my lord"- with "lord" being a courtesy title to everyone of Senatorial rank and above.

    The precise wording is on page 73:

    Sifo-Dyas sensed that the Republic would soon face an existential threat - and so he sought an army that would allow it to survive, contracting with the Kaminoans to create it and supplying the initial funding.

    But Sifo-Dyas never saw his army. He was murdered, and his secret project taken over by Darth Sidious.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 14, 2012
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  18. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    Oh, I don't believe it was hardwired into the clones (Lucas has said as much himself). And at this point it's not what TCW will try to change but what it will change.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Was this in Insider?
  20. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    I've always though that Order 66 was a Manchurian Candidate-type thought implanted into the Clones during their creation.

    The Clones themselves did not learn it during training and are unaware of the threat they pose to the Jedi. Even the Kaminoans are not aware of it except for the any agents Palpatine has amongst them.
    Firmus Jagdon and Sitara like this.
  21. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    I'm sorry, I'm not really sure. I remembered reading that somewhere, but a quick search only led to the previously-linked to Wookieepedia article (so it's unsourced unless someone else has a better memory than me).
  22. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    May have been an honorific. The clones definitely had no idea of the Force, dark side, Sith, etc. In the Republic Commando novels, clones even ask Jedi what the Sith are, dark side, etc. after Order 66.
  23. SaberJedi2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly my thoughts as well.
    Sitara and ThatWanFromStewjon like this.
  24. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Regardless of the legalities involved, I'm quite certain that the clones had a secret command built into them that would make them ultimately answer to Palpatine aka Darth Sidious. I don't think it would matter if he was Chancellor or not.

    ex. If by some miracle, Palpatine gets removed from office, he could probably still issue Order 66 to all the clones and they would obey, even if they knew Palpatine was no longer Chancellor.

    Since the Sith were directly involved in the creation of the Grand Army, I doubt they would allow all their hard work to be commanded by whoever became Chancellor.
  25. BoomBach Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Palpatine had the blind loyalty of the troops because they were loyal to the REPUBLIC and just happened to work for the jedi. But when the Empire was made clones questioned him on multiple occasions and they were for the most part disbanded and decommissioned.
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