Discussions Question about Jedi's view on Slavery

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by TVann, Feb 9, 2013.

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  1. TVann Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    So, a friend and I had a debate about how Jedi view slavery. And, while TPM kinda makes it seem like they don't really have anything against slavery itself (thanks, Qui-Gon), I still feel like it would be against their code for a Jedi to step aside and let people take slaves right in front of them. This is assuming there isn't direct force involved (no violent oppression, cause obviously that would deal with other aspects of Jedi code, this is just a question about slavery itself, aka owning of other people as property, in the SW universe). What do you guys think? Any references, quotes, etc. would be great if you know any. Thanks!
    ~TV
  2. BultarSwan Founder: Grand Rapids, MI FF

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2003
    star 9
    Jedi are anti-slavery. But it would be 'hard' to take on the whole galaxy and to do it themselves. They do go on missions to various planets and such to help people so I always figured that was part of it.
    VadersLaMent and Pearlsaber like this.
  3. Pearlsaber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2013
    star 4
    +1
  4. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    There is an interesting 'slavery-Jedi' scene in Twilight (a comic arc of the Republic series) involving Quinlan discovering Aayla.
  5. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    Slavery... who else is going to polish my armor?:D
  6. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    It would be "hard" to tackle any issue on a global scale though. Crime, corruption, slavery....the Jedi oppose them all, but how do they stop it on a galactic scale. They would need lots of public and government approval to start with.
    Gamiel and benknobi1 like this.
  7. Adalia-Durron Former RSA/EUC Empress.

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2003
    star 10

    + 1
  8. awesomejedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I think that as a principle the Jedi are against slavery, but often get too caught up in their own matters and politics to do anything.Good grief in AotC the Jedi accepted a SLAVE ARMY. They can be hypocrites somtimes.
    darth fluffy likes this.
  9. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    The Sith Empire consisted of slaves serving their masters.
  10. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Sharal jetii hut'uune [face_skull]
    Last edited by Robimus, Feb 16, 2013
  11. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Tikkes was involved in a slave scandal as well.
  12. BultarSwan Founder: Grand Rapids, MI FF

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2003
    star 9
    Not all Jedi follow the code. Not all Jedi know exactly what to do in all situations. Jedi are a minority. They are not always seen in the best light, especially when they can't help at which time those who ask for it will get angry. Jedi are not the military. Any other questions?
  13. Prodigy_Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 1
    Do the Jedi oppose corruption ?

    As generic good guys sure they do, corruption as understood by "I'll bring the doctor/burocrat some coffee a chocolate and I'll skip the line" as opposed to "I will corrupt the Force and everything will bend to my will mua ha ha".

    But arguing from the point of view of the Code and the desire to avoid the DS do the Jedi care about corruption enough to intervene ?

    Let's say this is on Coruscant, does a Jedi care that the Republic is going to buy it's stationary from company A, instead of company B who has the same quality but 10% cheaper, because someone from A slipped x credits to the right official ?
  14. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    Interesting question. I think the better question is does the High Council oppose it. The order is made up of a variety of different Jedi. Some would probably oppose it and try to stop it.
  15. Prodigy_Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 1
    Indeed it would be better phrased as such, the Council has to look at the big picture and make some of the hardest decisions.
  16. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I remember a scene from Legacy where Raasi Tuum had to kill Jariah Syn's father because they are trying to enslave some traders. I think if the Jedi see someone actively kidnapping other beings to take them into slavery then they take action. But in systems where slavery is established law Jedi must abide by these laws or risk bringing the Order and the Republic into an unwanted conflict.
    twowolves likes this.
  17. Howard the Duck Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2012
    IIRC, they directly address this in The Clone Wars tv show when some Jedi visit Ryloth (or maybe it was the comics?), and they're forced to accept that they couldn't liberate the slaves without causing a major diplomatic incident. Even though the Republic has outlawed slavery, Ryloth (and a bunch of non-aligned planets) gets a pass because the political/economic fallout of enforcing the ban would be too great.

    Also the Twilek claim that slavery is a core part of their culture - though it seems everybody knows this explanation is BS, including the Twileks.

    More interesting are the Old Republic comics, where some prominent Jedi are extremely wealthy members of the aristocracy, with their own army of servants. And then when those servants fight and die in the Republic's wars, they just get tossed in the mass grave while the Jedi get full honors at their funeral with a ritual cremation. It really emphasizes the idea that Jedi are arrogant elitists that look down on everyone else. It's still the case in the Clone Wars era, where the Jedi automatically assume General status over clones that have actual war experience. And many Jedi are seen giving bad orders that result in hundreds of clone deaths - without any apparent regrets. But if a single Jedi dies it's a grand tragedy, and they still get an epic burial in the Jedi temple (or a cremation ceremony).
    twowolves likes this.
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    TCW also makes a point of how the Jedi brought down the Zygerrian slaver empire when the Republic outlawed slavery though.

    Wasn't that something Palpatine did at the start of the war with his emergency powers, rather than the Jedi's own decision?
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Mar 16, 2013
    Gamiel likes this.
  19. twowolves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 3
    I like answers 16 and 17, personally. Yes, the Jedi tend to be snobs, but there are many in the Jedi Corps who didn't make padawan status, but still wanted to help the commoners and go on missions of mercy. However, we also need to consider the type of slavery. Are we talking the slavery of the Romans? They were prohibited from killing their slaves, and the aristocracy avoided those known for treating their slaves cruel because it was considered abhorrent. Most of the slaves in Rome were there to pay a debt, either to society for being convicted of a crime, as a war slave because they were the enemy, or as a debtor who couldn't pay his creditors. Indeed, some Greeks sold themselves into slavery on purpose because they were educated and knew they would have a life of luxury as a private tutor to the master's children. Moreover, there was the Roman holiday when the slave owners would trade places with the slaves, who would run through the streets and collect gifts and poke fun at their owners, who took it in stride and made fun of the slaves in return.

    I guess what I'm driving at is that not all slavery was bad, in terms of cruelty and hardship, though morally, it is objectionable. Not all slaves were kidnapped at gunpoint, and in the case of the Greeks (Twi'leks...?), it was financially beneficial. In these instances, I don't believe Jedi would object too strenuously, if at all.

    In the case of the Zygerrians, however, it was hard to make an argument that it was just a part of their culture and they were treating their slaves with dignity, so of course, the Jedi would object. If they didn't, they would lose all credibility in terms of being humanitarians.
  20. twowolves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 3
    I like replies 16 and 17. We all know the Jedi are, for the most part, snobs. But what type of slavery are we talking here? Are we talking the cruel slavery of the Victorian era, or are we talking the morally ambiguous slavery of the Romans? In Rome, it was not only considered abhorrent to treat your slaves cruel--something only the commoners would do--it was also illegal to kill them. The aristocracy would turn their face to a fellow aristocrat who got caught doing that. While they might beat a conviction, the bigger punishment would be the damage to their dignitas, their social image. Their political life would be over, a fate worse than death for the aristocracty of Rome. I'm not saying it wasn't done, only rare.

    Not only that, Roman slaves were either paying off a debt to society for some crime they'd committed, paying off a debt to a creditor, or were a prisoner of war, and even then, were still treated well. What's more, some Greeks who were highly educated purposely sold themselves into slavery, knowing they would become the pedagogue of some wealthy Roman's children and live a life of luxury.

    So, I doubt Jedi would object to this type of slavery, since it was mutually beneficial. In the case of the Twi'leks, it is how they get off Ryloth for the most part. I'm sure many males became the manservants of those who could afford it, though we don't see it in the comic books because it's more "sexy" to show half-naked Twi'lek women.

    But in the case of the Zygerrians, who were not known for the dignified manner in which they treated their slaves, the Jedi would have no choice but to object or lose all credibility as humanitarians.
  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The silver mines of the Roman Empire were exceptionally harsh, and slaves didn't last long there.

    Same applies to slaves working on large-scale farms.
  22. twowolves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 3
    In those cases, though, the Romans usually only sent the worst criminals there, and the large-scale farms were usually overseen by other slaves grasping for power, which led to cruelty, as well. Then there was the colliseum...

    It might help us to call one form of slavery indentured servitude to distinguish it from truly forced slavery where the slave suffered indignity and harm. The Jedi might look the other way in the cases of indentured servitude where the slave had certain rights, i.e., the right to be clothed, fed, housed in safe and habitable housing, and to be free from mistreatment or cruelty. But in the case of the Zygerrians...
  23. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Anakin's case- if he (or Shmi for that matter) ran away, an implanted explosive would blow them up.
  24. twowolves Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 3
    See, those were examples of forced slavery where the slaves had no rights, merely the whim of their masters. Hutts were famous for that...

    I'm not sure if there are any examples of the more "civilized" form of slavery in Star Wars (I used quotes because I view slavery as unnecessary and morally objectionable) which could be called "indentured servitude."
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Klatooinians, in Fate of the Jedi, are one of several cultures that have been indentured as a whole to the Hutts for millennia, and are not especially badly treated by comparison to "normal" slaves.

    The Noghri in The Thrawn Trilogy were an example of "debt-slavery" (they served the Empire as payment for the Empire's attempts to repair their ecosystem - and saw themselves as being mostly fairly treated- but since the Empire caused much of the damage in the first place - and are repairing it exceedingly slowly - the debt is a false one.
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