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Lit Question About Mara Jade (some spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by rsh2112, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Being a master means you are the most powerful dude?

    Seriously, where does this Jedi master > more powerful theory come from? Isn't wisdom for Jedi more important than how many enemies you can slay?
     
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  2. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    What made Mara special - and allegedly unique - was her ability to hear Palpatine's commands through the Force, anywhere in the galaxy. Whereas most uses of telepathy through the Force are only experienced as vague feelings and concepts, Mara could hear the Emperor's words, with as much detail as he cared to share with her.
     
  3. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008
    yes, wisdom and self control is the most important part of mastery. that said, you cannot be a Master without being very powerful in the force. Mara gained her mastery rather quickly after the events of VOTF. She gained her full powers because of her inate ability coupled with the sacrifice she made in VOTF.
     
  4. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Mara had a lot of strange ideas.
     
  5. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Where do you get that from?

    As I understand it, a master has maximized his/her potential and is intuned with the force. But that doesn't necessarily make him "very powerful" as some are born with less potential than others.
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In one of the later books, Tyria Sarkin-Tainer is stated to be someone who is "unable to become a Jedi Master due to deficiencies in her ability to use the Force" - despite having become a Jedi Knight:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tyria_Sarkin_Tainer

    which implies that some Jedi Knights are simply not powerful enough to become Masters.

    Still, around the time of the X-Wing novels, Luke thought she couldn't even become a Knight- yet later, she managed it.

    Maybe same principle may apply to some Masters- with there being weak ones, that might not be thought to be capable of reaching that level on first assessment.
     
  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Whoever introduced that idea into the EU ... I don't like it at all. It very much seems to run counter to the spirit of the OT and the PT where we're told "War's don't make one great" and that Anakin isn't fit to become a Jedi master because of his mentality.

    Apparently in the EU wars do make one great because it is prowess and power that makes one a Jedi master.
     
  8. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    It was Lucasfilm who told Zahn that it had to be a unique ability shared between Mara and the Emperor, and to my knowledge, they haven't allowed it to be demonstrated anywhere else. So, while Mara may have a lot of strange ideas, this isn't one of them.
     
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  9. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Becoming a Jedi Master has always seemed to be about both experience, wisdom, and Force Power to me. Same with being a Jedi Knight.
     
  10. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 4, 2001
    I got the idea they didn´t make him master because he was appointed by Palpatine and wanted to show him he didn´t rule that much over them (movie wise, I got the idea Jedi council was all masters). All according to Palpy´s plan. Yet again.
     
  11. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008
    right. You must master yourself, have wisdom and experience and POWER. It has always been that way. The reason Yoda and Mace did not like Anakin on the council was because the only thing he had was power, not the other two things
     
  12. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008
    right you need to have wisdom, experience, and POWER. They did not like Anakin being on the council because even though he had power, and some experience, he could not master himself and was limited on wisdom. Plus having Palpatine order that was a slap in the face.
     
  13. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    I thought as long as you have the potential to be trained a Jedi you can also become a master as well. Some of the masters in AOTC and ROTS didn't do so well against enemies, seemed to be even weaker than Padawan Obi-Wan.
     
  14. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    I never got that feeling, as their's quite simply a difference in Force Potential between every person. There are people at the top with Skywalker Class Force Potential and people at the bottom who are Force Sensitive but can barely manipulate the Force in a noticeable way. That being said rank isn't an automatic gauge of power, with Anakin being the ultimate example. He had the power to be a Jedi Master, but not the wisdom and maturity. (Realistically, he probably wasn't even mentally stable enough to be a Jedi Knight either, though again as the Chosen One and such he would always have the power and ability no matter what rank he was.)

    EDIT: It probably has to be noted that in the OT there wasn't any clear distinction that one person could have more Force Potential than another. Really the idea wasn't even expanded upon outside of those Force Users we were introduced to.
     
  15. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 4, 2001
    It is mentioned the Force is especially strong on the Skywalkers. Besides, both Yoda and Obi Wan could have progressed to challenge Palpatine and Vader, yet they had to wait for Luke, especifically.
     
  16. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Ok so there was some mention then, not much though,


    Yoda possibly, as he stalemated the Emperor when they fought. Obi-Wan definitely not. He wasn't strong enough to take on Palpatine in ROTS, and after 20 years on Tatooine he was only weaker from not using his skills.
     
  17. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 4, 2001
    The sad thing about Yoda vs Sidious was that it didn´t seem he lacked power, but that because of the ways he has adopted he can´t use his power as Palpatine uses his, who has his hate, and probably can use his own fear of losing to power himself up. Yoda had nothing to counter that.
     
  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Also Palpatine has tropes, lots of tropes and they are coming to help him. Yoda could probably take him out in an one-on-one but not if he was distracted
     
  19. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 4, 2001
    Then he would have tried again, not retired. Yoda knew he could not win (I think the novelization pointed that out rather than the physical fight). Points for Palpatine for being smart enough not to fight on equal terms against his enemies.

    The real hero of SW is whoever stole his Evil Overlord List between trilogies.
     
  20. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Even in the novelization Yoda doesn't state he can't kill Palpatine. He thinks about the Sith as a whole and how they've adapted their methods and successfully taken over the galaxy, and turned the Jedi into the people's enemy. That a lightsaber blade is no longer enough to undo that.

    EDIT: Though i'm not saying Yoda could kill Palpatine at that point, or that Palpatine could kill Yoda. If anything as of ROTS i've always seen the two as equals.
     
  21. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 10, 2005
    I knew Palpatine was genre-savy, but using tropes to help him fight is just unfair. :p
     
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  22. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    He didn't have it with him in ROTS either. I glanced over it and stumbled over point 6.

    "I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them."
     
  23. kataja

    kataja Jedi Master star 4

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    May 4, 2007
    I don't think I've ever read a Sacrifice-topiced post taht I agreed more with than this!
     
  24. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I'm inclined to think Yoda and Palpatine could kill each other with a slight edge to Palpatine because as a Jedi, Yoda's techniques are not inclined to murder while Palpatine....yeah.

    In yoda's case, I think he realized that the risk was too great of the Jedi's lore disappearing forever on a battle he PROBABLY wouldn't win.

    Especially if a bunch of stormtroopers came in and blaster spammed Yoda.
     
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  25. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008

    hmnn. you are saying that The dark side is more powerful then?? That Yoda did not have enough emotion to counter Palpatine? If that is so it's interesting. Could it be that Yoda's lack of emotional attachment was a hindrance to him??

    Luke in the last series drew on love to fuel his power against Abeloth. Could it be that because of Luke being open to some level of positive attachment that it makes him stronger??