PT Question concerning events leading up to the creation of the Clone Army

Hello all,
New user here. I have really been diving deep into Star Wars for the past two years or so. One of the reasons I love Star Wars is because of the great continuity of canon between not just the films, but the television, novels, comics and so on. On to my main question... While I feel that I have sorted out most everything to the rest of the PT timeline in my head, I'm worried that my one question will be beating a dead horse for some of you Jedi Masters. I can not figure out the timeline to when Sidious discovered the project of creating the Clone Army. From what I have found out thus far (canonically) Sifo-Dyas commissioned the Clone Army after foreseeing the future war. However, before its completion, Sifo-Dyas' murder was hired out by the Sith to take over the operation. If the Sith hired Jango Fett to be the template for the clones, when exactly did Sidious become aware of the concept or commission of the Clone Army. I am having trouble figuring out how this all aligns canonically. It seems strange to me that the Kiminoans would wait to begin creating the Clone Army until after Sifo-Dyas was killed, allowing the Sith to hire Jango. Even though the Kiminoans seem unaware that the Sith had taken over the operation, why would they wait so long to begin the process for all of this to happen beforehand? I also understand that there may not be exact canonical answers to this yet, but anything that can help me sort this out would be great. Thanks!

 

The truth is. It happened some time between the release of TPM and the writing of AOTC. The "canonical" explanations came some time afterwards.

 

I am curious about what those canonical explanations are though. I have been through all of the Clone Wars television show and have seen the episode featuring Sifo-Dyas' story but am still trying to make sense of it all personally. I just want to gigure out the most likely sequence of events, even if there is no canonical answer yet.

 

Wookiepedia has that kind of stuff.

 

Yeah most of my info I put in the OP was stuff compiled from Wookipedia. But I'm still having trouble getting the timeline right.

 

Oh. If you've read that and watched the canon then that's it, as far as I know.

 

Yes I know, just trying to get a discussion going about different thoughts on how this all played out. It is actually a significant factor in the history of the galaxy over the next several decades that hasn't been thouroughlt explained yet. Maybe not ever. But I would love to hear some ideas.

 

I would speculate that it must have taken some time for the Kaminoans to upgrade or scale up their cloning infrastructure to handle the sheer volume of units required for the clone army. Probably they were still in this preliminary phase when Sifo-Dyas was killed, so that no donor had yet been decided on at the time the Sith took over.

 

It also could be guessed that Sifo Dyas never existed. I mean the real one existed but wasn't involved, they used his name exactly because he was killed in the same period. I mean if the Kaminoans incidental had to contact Sifo Dyas they couldn't find him and also if for some reasons the contacted another representative of the Republic (less probable, still not impossible) no one would know anything because it was Sifo Dyas project and so on. I think this name was used by Dooku or Palpatine (maybe Dooku is more probable) to contact the Kaminoans and to arrange the details around the bargain, including the money. Because the clone army is expensive, there is no doubt about that.

 

This would make sense and could go along with both theories that Sidious used the force to entice Sifo-Dyas to commission the army, or that Sidious only discovered the beginnings of a clone army production after its commission.

 

The timeline as it stands right now...

1. Sifo-Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council in the years prior to the Naboo blockade. At some undetermined point, he began having visions of the fall of the Jedi Order and the coming conflict with the Separatists.

2. Sifo-Dyas went to the Council about this and felt that they should do something radical. Possibly either increasing their rank to become a full fledged army, or raise one on their own. The Council became concerned with his ideas and ultimately voted to remove him, with Ki-Adi-Mundi becoming his replacement.

3. Jedi Master Dooku had fallen to the dark side and was recruited by Palpatine to serve him in his upcoming war.

4. Dooku and Sifo-Dyas discuss many things and along the way, the idea of creating a Clone Army is formed. It is unclear if it was Sifo-Dyas idea, or Dooku's.

5. Sifo-Dyas is given a covert assignment to deal with the Pyke Syndicate on Oba-Diah, by Chancellor Valorum. Silman, an aide to the Chancellor accompanies Sifo-Dyas. Just after arriving, he was contacted by the Council to deal with a separate mission on Felucia.

6. Before he could get there, Sifo-Dyas' ship is shot down by the Pykes on behalf of Dooku, who then proceeds to kill Sifo-Dyas in order to use his identity on Kamino. It is unclear specifically if Sifo-Dyas had placed the initial order with Lama Su, or if Dooku had using Sifo-Dyas's name. Silman survives the crash, but suffers severe mental trauma and is left behind on Oba Diah.

7. Sifo-Dyas' body is sent to Felucia, where the Council is then informed of the death of one of their own. An investigation is started, but they're unable to determine if there was foul play as the remains were cremated by the Felucians.

8. At the same time as all of this, the Naboo blockade had begun and escalated into an invasion.

9. Dooku recruits Jango Fett on the moon of Bogden, under the name Tyranus and he is sent to Kamino, after telling Lama Su to expect Jango and that at some point, he will send a Jedi to check on the progress of the order.

10. During the Battle of Naboo, Darth Maul is gravely wounded and is believed dead by the Jedi and the Sith. Palpatine anoints Dooku as Darth Tyranus and makes him his Apprentice. Before leaving the Jedi Temple, Dooku erases Kamino from the Archives memory.

 

It has been awhile since I've watched but didn't The a clone Wars confirm that Sifo-Dyas did in fact order the army through his surviving assistant who had been held as a prisoner since?

 

The only question I have with this is why did Sifo-Dyas receive the mission to Oba-Diah after he had been voted out of the Jedi? Also do you have some sources for some of this uncommon information for me to check it out? I love researching to find answers to this stuff...

 

Yes, you are right, but they also bring Darth Maul back. So in a way I consider them something like Extended Universe (not lower than the movies, just different). My guesses came from I what I saw in AOTC and ROTS. But in both cases, whatever version we choose, there are some things that are perfectly clear:
1. the Clone wars are not a goal but a mean to the big goal, creating the Empire
2. The Kaminoans needed at least 10 years to create the clones
3. Those who made the plot of all this (mostly Palpatine) needed secrecy. So they cut all the possible connections between the Republic and this remote strange world, Kamino. Even the clone host is practically an outlaw and I think it is deliberate.


By the way, welcome to the forums!

 

Sifo-Dyas was still a Jedi, just not part of the Council.

"The Clone Wars" season six, episode ten, "The Lost One".

 

I appreciate your help! I do look at The Clone Wars with the same amount of weight as the films when considering their canonical value. There are some things about the show that I wish played out differently but i still consider them very much a part of the history of the galaxy

 

This makes very much sense! I will rewatch that episoded today... it's been awhile

 

The show is very much equal to the films since Lucas himself was involved in it, pitching ideas and tweaking others.

 

Yes I agree. Does a majority of people on these forums not consider Marvel comics and Disney books to be equal to films and TCW?

 

It varies from person to person. Even though Lucasfilm treats all things as canon under the current deal, a certain segment of fans still view things by tiers as it was under Lucas himself.

 

Sifo Dyas was the one who commissioned the army under Dooku's influence after that he was killed.

 

No, that's was never established. What's established in The Clone Wars is that Sifo-Dyas was killed and his identity was used by the Sith to place the order under his name. It was Dooku who placed the order.

 

That does require the Databank rather than the episode alone - but it's a logical surmise if the Databank is counted.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/sifo-dyas