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Oceania Question from a Yank: Are they showing the Presidential Debates Down Under?

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Jansons_Funny_Twin, Sep 30, 2004.

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  1. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    I can't stand people who bash GL

    GRRRRRRRRR
     
  2. Jansons_Funny_Twin

    Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    I can't stand people who bash GL

    And the inter-Aussie disagreement begins. the fracturing has started. A house divided cannot stand against the right-walking world.

    Good, good.



    b4k4^2
     
  3. Sith Magician

    Sith Magician Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 1999
    And thus, you're true purpose here is revealed :p
     
  4. Jansons_Funny_Twin

    Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Muahahahahahahaha!



    b4k4^2
     
  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I'll bash GL for tinkering with what was essentially perfect needlessly. I'm older than you, I was watching these before you were born and dagnammit, I'll complain like an old man if I can.

    E_S
     
  6. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    ender, you're only five years older than me
     
  7. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    That makes his opinion five times more important than anyone else's our age, though. ;)
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    No, it just means I'll retire before you, get grey hair and have a 5 year head start on complaining like the elderly do.

    E_S

     
  9. Meriween

    Meriween Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2004
    As long as you're listing your talented people, don't forget Eric Bana /swoon

    LOL
     
  10. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    back to the topic, who do you want to win?

    I want kerry to win but i think bush will
     
  11. Sith Magician

    Sith Magician Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 1999
    Pfft, Bush didn't win last time :p

    I really hope Kerry will win it, but Bush has had 4 years to feed the current security paranoia in the states, and that's the angle they've been playing on from his corner.

    I just hope that Americans can see past the scare tactics, take a look at their economy, the image from other nations that they have earnt, the amount of young men and women Bush has sent to a needless death and the fact that Bush has noone's interests at heart other than his own and his daddy's business friends.

    It will be a sad, sad day if Bush regains office.
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Pfft, Bush didn't win last time

    Yeah, he did.

    See; US Electoral College.
    Do Not See: Michael Moore.

    However, I'm inclined to support Kerry, though I hope if Bush gets back in the neoconservatives are going to be thoroughly ignored this time around.

    E_S
     
  13. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    I agree with Ender - Bush won the electoral vote, so whether or not he won the popular vote is entirely irrelevant. It sucks, but it's the system they (and we) have, so there's not much that can be done about it.
     
  14. Sith Magician

    Sith Magician Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 1999
    I love how anyone questioning the validity of the last US election is assumed to have gotten all their information from Michael Moore.

    It was quite common knowledge (IE: reported on a number of news services) that the people in charge of the impartiality of the election in Florida had close ties to the Bush family or they're assosciates, and that many of the US Military postal votes that were counted, had in fact arrived too late to be counted. Also, the number of minority voters turned away at the polls exceeded any previous election years, some were turned away for simply having a similar name to a criminal. Minority voters in the US are known to vote Democrat more often than not.
     
  15. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    some were turned away for simply having a similar name to a criminal

    Wait...I must be misunderstanding. Do you mean to imply that convicted criminals don't get a vote in the US?
     
  16. Sith Magician

    Sith Magician Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 1999
    I think it depends on what the crime is, I'm pretty sure it's convicted felons who are unable to vote.
     
  17. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Hooray for democracy! [face_plain]
     
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I agree with Ender - Bush won the electoral vote, so whether or not he won the popular vote is entirely irrelevant. It sucks, but it's the system they (and we) have, so there's not much that can be done about it.


    Well, I think you'll find that almost no president has had a pluralist victory; that is, won the College (states) and the popular vote.

    I love how anyone questioning the validity of the last US election is assumed to have gotten all their information from Michael Moore.


    Well, Moore has been a popular anti-hero in this country and has made the point in film and in print.

    Given that you can take all the stories about that election and line then up end from end and still not achieve a cohesive view of what happened, I'm going to trust US Constitutional Law and say George W Bush won the 2000 Election.

    Minority voters in the US are known to vote Democrat more often than not.

    I think a key indicator this year will be how Florida swings.

    I talked about how Labor was using Democrat tactics to put their message out this election, and how in effect it wouldn't matter if 100% of people in a Labor seat voted Labor in the election result, right?

    Same thing applies here; if 100% of your minorities in FL voted Democrat, it would have to be judged in relation to the turnout from other registered voters. Bush won Florida by something like 600 votes last time around.

    Do you mean to imply that convicted criminals don't get a vote in the US?


    Not always; The Economist - "Prison & Beyond":

    America's huge criminal class also has profound political implications. Most states limit the voting rights of felons and ex-felons. As a result, 4.7m Americans, or 2.3% of the voting population, have lost their rights. The figure is nearly 7% in Alabama. One in six black men cannot vote in Virginia and Kentucky. This causes alienation, and changes elections. Felons may not be enthusiastic voters, but they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.


    The article then suggests had felons not been banned from voting, Gore would have won.

    However, as someone who often ends up clashing with Yanks over our voting system - i.e. our compulsory voting system - and as someone who thinks voting should be compulsory, I have to admit I'm fond of the idea of stripping convicted felons of their voting rights.

    Why?

    Simple. Because the "social contract" is a meticulous constructed and socially harmonious agreement that functions exceptionally well. If you're not going to adhere to it, I don't see rewards being a necessary recourse. Yes, you could argue that prison itself, and the deprivation of liberty, is punishment enough but really, why do we all adhere to social norms? Fear of punishment and common good... fair to say that?

    What makes you opposed to the idea that criminals have their voting rights stripped, Hawk? What makes it undemocratic, especially in light of the "glorious" ;) tradition of ostrakon in ancient democratic Greece?

    E_S
     
  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Wierd. My reply was inserted earlier than those of Hawk and Sithy... :eek:

    E_S
     
  20. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Democracy's crap :p
     
  21. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Well, people also have to look at the entire system, and not take a single aspect out of context.

    Because, as always, reality is different than rumor.

    The basic prohibition in the US is that felons are prohibited from voting while in prison.

    I think this is universially accepted, and most people understand why.

    (Only 4 states, those that are viewed in the US as the "Blue NE," Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont, allow felons to vote in prison.)

    Once a felon's prison sentence is up, things are less cut and dried.

    Most felons can petition to have their voting rights restored once they are released from prison. The onus to do so is on the individual prisoner.

    Still more states have policies that restore voting rights after a set amount of time. Most typically, it is a period of 2 years after being released from prison.

    If, after being released from prison, a person keeps their record clean, voting rights are automatically granted. If that person convicted of another crime in that time period, their right to vote remains suspended.

    Basically, there is some individual responsibility that needs to be accepted when one votes.

    If a felon wants to restore his voting rights, he needs to make the effort to do so BEFORE election day.




     
  22. Sith Magician

    Sith Magician Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 1999
    Well, I also happen to agree with the stripping of the right to vote from convicted felons. It's obvious that these ppl don't care enough about themselves or the community around them not to do wrong by it, so why should they have a say in the vote?

    My point was, the Supreme Court handed Bush Florida because of 537 votes.

    Now, more than 200 votes ( I don't recall the exact figure) for Bush came from military postal votes, and were sent out oo late to be counted, yet they were counted. Now, with the turning away of voters who had similar names to convicted felons, the numbers involved in that climbed into the thousands, most of them black, including doctors, lawyers, and in one case, a reverend in Florida who had a similar name to an armed robber from another state.

    Sure, deny felons the vote, but do so from a system that makes it impossible to confuse similar sounding names with law abiding citizens.
     
  23. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    ^^^

    What Sith Magician said sums it up for me - I tend to think that if they're going to show that little regard for the community, why should they be allowed a say in the direction that community takes.
     
  24. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    I heard that there are a LOT more people enrolled to vote in the US now, if that happens Kerry will get in.

    I hope he does, though i've got a very bad feeling something will happen November 13 this year.

    you heard it from me first, I have a bad feeling about that date that won't go away.
     
  25. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    *looks at election results*

    I think I'm moving to Mars.
     
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