PT Questioning "Sidious Revealed" scene in ROTS

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Zapdos, Feb 20, 2013.

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  1. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    I am a big fan of the PT and ROTS is my favorite film.
    But there are two things in this particular scene that gets to me and I'd like your opinions on.

    1. How Sidious takes out 3 Jedi masters in less than 5 seconds. I understands he's a great sith lord who knows his way around a lightsaber, but it's like they're not even able to put up a fight. I think the scene would have been better if they had let them get one or two swooshes, at least, before being killed, instead of just being stabbed right away like they hadn't even been in a fight before. It's not like they didn't see him coming/flying across the room.

    2. "I can't hold any longer". He's basically killing himself here. Why not just stop the force lightning so that Mace can't send back? I get that Mace probably would have just chopped him to pieces if Sidious hadn't been so set on doing the job himself, but still.. why?
  2. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    He was part of the Graveyard Smash.
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  3. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    He was too fast for them.


    Palpatine is intentionally doing that. He's pretending to be losing the fight.
  4. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I think Lucas didn't care about those Jedi because they weren't essential to the plot, only Mace was. He also needed to show how strong Palpatine was.
  5. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    It's just too bad that to show someone's strength, GL has sometimes found the need to show the "other" as weak when really the "other" should have been "less strong" rather than incompetently weak.
  6. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    Exactly.

    It's a shame he has to completely humiliate great jedi masters that have fought in several hard battles during their time in order to make Sidious come out of it as the champion. He would be equally great (even more, imo) if the jedi were to put up a decent fight and Sidious would win over them like in a real fight. Then the jedi masters wouldn't look completely clueless AND Sidious would look even better for beating them.
  7. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I agree that they should have put up a better fight and I would have also liked Palpatine to move a little faster when he goes in for the kill. He stands there for a least a second and the Jedi don't even block his blow. That whole part could have been better choreographed. Your second complaint I think comes down to Palpatine merely holding Mace Windu at bay. When he lets go I think he senses Anakin's turmoil and decides its time to finally make him choose. That's my interpretation anyway.
  8. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    It's just too bad that to show someone's strength, GL has sometimes found the need to show the "other" as weak when really the "other" should have been "less strong" rather than incompetently weak.


    ----

    this is a fair point, and is an excellent example of this,

    I have though over the years of finding this scene completey shocking accepted it for what it is,

    a not very well thought out scene,

    or that the scene was "normal speed" for the viewer to comprehend what's going on because the reality happened so fast it was a blur.

    Usually film makers use a thing called slow motion to achieve this though
    Last edited by Sistros, Feb 20, 2013
  9. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    If they'd sped up the Duel of the Fates so that Obi-Wan's flip was F*A*S*T, Maul would not have looked quite so stupid, too.
  10. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    GL made a huge mistake by making those Jedi die so casually. I find the scene made almost no sense.
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  11. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    ...waiting patiently for this devolve into to an erroneous discussion about how he paralyzed them with a sith force scream.
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  12. Mirax Terrik Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 5
    1. They were probably caught off guard by his mastery of the sword. But yes, they came across as completely incompetant instead.

    2. He was holding Windu back. I'm pretty sure Mace wouldn't have hesitated to chop Sidious's head off.
  13. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    I remember a 'fan-edit' of the scene that showed what could have been done, with some pretty simple editing. It worked really well, and the appearance of the fight seemed to run far more organically. I can't seem to find it now, though (the version on Youtube has been removed.
  14. Eternity85 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2008
    star 3
    I guess he used force stasis to keep them from moving..

    1. No, but what I think was the case is that the Jedi did not expect that they would be attacked so ferociously, neither of them had ever been in a deadly lightsaber battle in their lives, they had never battled a Sith lord before. They spent all their time in contemplation, while Sidious had been prepared for a long time. Maybe they also hesitated because it was the supreme chancellor, they could not just kill him, they had no evidence that he was a Sith lord.

    2. Maybe he wanted to injure himself, so that when Anakin arrived he would feel sympathy for him. I don't really believe that myself, but im' just putting in out there.
  15. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    1. No, but what I think was the case is that the Jedi did not expect that they would be attacked so ferociously, neither of them had ever been in a deadly lightsaber battle in their lives, they had never battled a Sith lord before. They spent all their time in contemplation, while Sidious had been prepared for a long time. Maybe they also hesitated because it was the supreme chancellor, they could not just kill him, they had no evidence that he was a Sith lord.

    ---

    no they had never been in combat before, but Obi and Qui-Gon had been, I don't think Obi would have reported to the council that the duel was pants and that he could do it with his eyes closed.

    they knew what they were up against.

    And what more evidence do they need? the guy had just activated a red bladed lightsaber and spun at them in the air, i hardly think they were thinking "elementary my dear kola, but we can't jump to con-aarrggh!"
    Last edited by Sistros, Feb 21, 2013
  16. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    That scene tells you two things: Darth Sidious is one bad mother, and the Jedi, in their arrogance, underestimated him.

    Besides all that, they should have surrounded him and not just arrogantly stand in front of him.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Feb 22, 2013
  17. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.
  18. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Exactly.
  19. Avnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
  20. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Oh, but it would be great if he had - they should have made that scene! :D
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  21. Death T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 1
    I just think they did a poor job of showing how much better Palpatine is. It doesn't bother me that Sidious is overpowered--it's how they showed it. It would make sense for Sidious to humiliate the Jedi by overwhelming them with his force powers, but instead the movie insisted on proving that he was just that much better with a light saber. Just imagine Sidious really opening up a can of whoop ass: throwing guys left and right, hurling large objects, choking one and electrocuting another, throwing a light saber, force jumping twenty feet to evade an attack. He could convincingly crush his opponents by demonstrating his vast superiority in the force--which is what he and the Sith are all about anyway--while not making the Jedi look totally incompetent. By Sidious just slicing them up with ease, you get the impression that they're weak because you think "jeez these are Jedi masters and they can't even hold up in a light saber battle for five minutes?".
    Last edited by Death T, Feb 25, 2013
  22. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I think its because they made a somewhat last minute decision with the palps mace fight. Originally anakin was with Palpatine when mace confronted him. they changed it so that Anakin was gone. In the original fight Palpatine would have used Anakin's lightsaber to fight mace.

    You can see if you freeze frame that some shots Palpatine is holding Anakins saber hilt.

    --------------------
    When it comes down to it, the choreography wasn't as adept at showing Palpatine's strength because it was not Ian Mcdiarmid. It was using a double with his face painted on. Thus it doesn't look very convincing.

    They needed facial shots of Ian, so I guess they had to choreograph a routine that would be easy enough for him to perform some basic moves to get close ups.

    The facial scanning technology just wasn't ready when it was used in AOTC and ROTS. It is less noticeable using in the dooku duels because they pan away from his face.

    So thats why a lot of people don't like the duels with dooku or sidious. They were limited in what they could show because the technology was flawed.
  23. Darkskar95 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 1
    That's one of the worst scenes in my opinion.

    1: Well isn't Sidious like all powerful?

    2: If he was killing himself why didn't he just stop?
  24. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    It's because GL doesn't want his movies to make sense.

    Mace had his blade at sidious's throat. If he had utilized a simple thrust, or stab, instead of winding up for an unnecessary slash, he could have ended the Sith before Anakin had a chance to stop him.
  25. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    THANK YOU
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