Questions/Comments on SbS - SPOILERS INCLUDED

My NJO Reading Group is busily reading "Star by Star" at the moment. I got a good response on the questions I posed here at TF.N for "Balance Point," and would be interested in your opionions/comments on the following.

Things are definitely happening in "Star by Star" -- all pretty bad, actually. It's
kinda ironic, the timing of this book...things are not well in our galaxy,
nor are they in the GFFA.

On to the questions/comments:

1. Again, how appropriate for our time -- what Jaina says that Leia says:
"Comfort was always easier to steal than to earn, peace easier to break than
to keep." Trouble has plagued the New Republic from the beginning. If you
think about how Leia, Luke, Han and all the rest replaced a government that
stood for many, many years, seeing its group of peacekeepers systemically
slaughtered so that no one stood in the way of the imperial domination, then
conflict has been an everyday occurrence. Another example of why complacency
has a price -- and why we have military forces ever vigilant.

2. From page 19 -- I find it interesting that Jaina still thinks that Jedi,
like Caesar's wife, should be above reproach. She should have learned that
from Kyp and his dozen -- that the ends justify the means.

3. Hmmm...Leia in Chapter 4 -- shouldn't she know by now that you need a lot
of backup when dealing with the Vong? LOL. This "put yourself in peril" has
definitely been the hallmark of the NJO books...but it's extremely evident in
this particular book.

4. Boy...we've got Jedi dropping like flies, and we're only through Chapter
Six! You can tell already that SbS is pretty much unrelieved tension and
despair throughout -- be prepared. Things are only going to get worse.

5. We're certainly meeting a lot of characters already. Denning mentioned
in an interview that he owed a debt to the JJK/YJK series, and he's certain
demonstrating that with the dramatis personae that he's using in this book.
Of course, for a lot of them this will be their final appearance...8-(. I
remember these "kids" from reading the JJK and YJK series. It's very sad to
see them go.

On a happier note, the Barabel Jedi are fascinating!

6. The expository scenes with the political machinations are equally
fascinating, and depressing at the same time. This is how government works,
folks, in the real universe as well as this fictional one! Borsk's maneuvers
are revealing -- one can understand why Leia wants out. On the other hand,
one can see how persuasive being involved in politics can be -- the sense of
power, indeed, the sense of manipulation. It can be addicting.

7. I sure wish Viqi Shesh would get what's coming to her...since I haven't
read to the end, I don't know if there's a fate in store for her in this
particular entry, but I know that it's coming -- how could it be otherwise?
The warmaster has guaranteed it, in subtle little dialog passages.

8. From Chapter 12 - the Vong Hunter that Lando builds. Han suggests that
the NR will need 3 million of them. Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like a clone
army, doesn't it? Where have we heard "that" before? <g>

9. Han says this about his son: "At seventeen, Anakin was as much a man as
Han had been at thirty, had probably seen as much combat and spilled more
blood than Had had in the Rebellion. And he was still so young." I dunno,
that's kind of a "Star Trek Officer in red shirt" kind of comment. You be
the judge...LOL.

A bonus ten point question:

Can you spot the word that Denning is apparently enamored of? He uses it a
total of four times as a description, in these first 139 pages. Geez, his
editor should have caught that (you can tell my writer/editor persona is
coming to the fore here).

All in, all, IMHO of course, I don't feel that his writing style is up to par with the rest of the NJO series. Or maybe he
didn't have a good editor, as I mentioned. Or -- he's sucking us in, presenting the goodness and light of these characters, the p

 

Hmm is the word "willowy?" I remember it being three times for Mara, Danni, and Tahiri, maybe I missed the fourth one...Unless you are thinking of another word

 

4. Boy...we've got Jedi dropping like flies, and we're only through Chapter
Six! You can tell already that SbS is pretty much unrelieved tension and
despair throughout -- be prepared. Things are only going to get worse.

:: Man I know what you mean. I love the YJK and JJK gang, and they're being decimated. Kudos to Denning for giving them an appearance, but talk about short-lived. Man...

I was thinking, while reading SbS, that Kyp was wrong in Rebirth. No no, not about THAT. That debate is worn out. I'm talking about him including himself in the New Jedi Order. In my mind, he's not part of that. I'm not even sure someone like Ganner is. The YJK and JJK groups, and the kids still learning on the Errant Venture...those kids are the New Jedi Order. The rest are just temps to fill the void, until those kids reach maturity. THe ones who have spent almost their whole lives surrounded by the Force, rather than learning only in their mid/late teens, or even middle age. Those kids are the ones who are going to form the heart and soul of the Order, not Kyp, Luke, Mara, Cilghal, Tionne..etc.

Anyway, my two credits.

JMA

 

Dang, sweetheart, you were way too quick! LOL

Yep, that's the one. Apparently there are no human women in the GFFA that are anything but "willowy."

Humor aside, his editor should have caught this.

 

Ooh cool I actually know something! Well I just read it so it's fresh in my mind.

When's the fourth one though? I know it was used for Mara, Tahiri, and Danni, who's the fourth lucky girl?

 

JediMasterAaron writes:

"...The YJK and JJK groups, and the kids still learning on the Errant Venture...those kids are the New Jedi Order. The rest are just temps to fill the void, until those kids reach maturity. THe ones who have spent almost their whole lives surrounded by the Force, rather than learning only in their mid/late teens, or even middle age. Those kids are the ones who are going to form the heart and soul of the Order, not Kyp, Luke, Mara, Cilghal, Tionne..etc."

An interesting observation! And what they will have seen.... Of course, this assumes that any of them last that long .

 

When's the fourth one though? I know it was used for Mara, Tahiri, and Danni, who's the fourth lucky girl?

OK, maybe it wasn't four...LOL I thought there was another reference, but no doubt you're correct. I'll see if I can find it, just to be sure.

 

Well, we all know the real reason Jaina turns to the Dark Side - she's mad that she wasn't described as willowy! What a shock!

 

I lost alot of respect for Jaina in this book, and gained alot for Jacen. Jaina was able to be broken by the Vong. Jaina turned on her friends at the death of Anakin. Jaina turned to the Dark Side. Highly disappointed in her, to say the least.

JMA

 

Mostly I felt pity for her. She lost a lot, and she wasn't able to handle it well. Besides, don't you think it was her guilty feelings that drove her to the Dark Side? I did.

 

Nah, I don't see Jaina as willowy, even though in Balance Point it stated that she was the taller of the twins. You've gotta bet that Jacen probably took after Han in height, making Jaina and him around six feet tall! At least I hope they didn't both take after Leia. . .that would make them MY height

I know what you're thinking, they're not fully grown yet and Jacen could still surpass her on his way to being six feet tall, but when you're around 20 you're pretty much done if you're a human. No, I believe she's somewhere around six feet tall. But she's probably got an athletic, slender build instead of a willowy build.

Plus, I can't believe Mara is willowy so soon after having Ben!! I mean, isn't there such a thing as pregnancy weight in the GFFA?
Sorry, this is just another one of my lovely rants. . .

Jae Angel

 

LOL, me neither. Well, Ben IS four months old, but she still shouldn't be willowy.

I remember in one of the NJO books it said Jaina was taller than Leia, but still fairly small. Does that make Jacen a shrimp?

 

I always thought Jaina would turn to the dark side......she's a really nice, sincere person and because of that I always felt that she would have difficulty coping with grief and I was proved right. It was really sad to see her lose her connection with Jacen as well.

 

You've gotta bet that Jacen probably took after Han in height, making Jaina and him around six feet tall

Yeah, Jaina's been described as even smaller than Leia...

 

Yeah I thought Jaina was shorter than Leia. Maybe it's a generation thing, like how Leia is shorter than Padme

 

If Jaina is shorter than Leia and Jacen is shorter than Jaina, then Jacen must be about 4'11"!!

Sorry, I don't buy that. My boyfriend's mom is about the same height as me but he's six feet tall, so I highly doubt Jacen is as short as Leia. The men in the family take after the men and the women usually take after the women. Since in BP they mentioned that Jaina was taller than Jacen then she must have taken after her dad, thus she has to be tall. Maybe when she was 14 in the YJK novels, she was around Leia's height, but not now.

The funny thing is that I was also 14 when YJK came out, and the twins grew old with me! Now I'm 20 and they're 19, but it's still pretty close, which is better than you can say for some soap operas or cartoon characters!

Jae Angel

 

Where does it say that Jaina is taller than Jacen? I must have missed that.

I remember in BP Leia commented that Jacen was almost as tall as his dad, who is 6'1. Jaina would be like 6'2 or something if she was taller.

In SBS Jacen "towers" over Leia, so he must be pretty tall.

 

I swear, I read it in Balance Point! I will have to go find the part now.

But it is true, because it stopped me dead in my tracks when I read it. I was like "WHAT? I thought she'd be as small as Leia!"

So, I will find it and then I will post the page number to prove I'm not insane! Oh boy, I love wild goose chases!

Jae Angel

PS- I'm sure if Jaina were 6'2" it wouldn't be too weird. A few of my friends are very tall, some of them over six feet.

 

I think that it said in BP that Jacen had recntly had a growth spurt and shot above his sister. She was taller in YJK I think. Girls tend to have growth spurts earlier, so that's all fine. I think she's probably just nearly Leia's height, and he's probably getting close to Han's.

 

Bottom of page 83 to Top of page 84:

"Always understanding someone else's viewpoint, that's my little brother"

He smiled wryly. For about two years, she had been taller.

So, it doesn't say anywhere around there that Jacen was now taller, so I think it's safe to say Jaina is very tall along with Jacen.

Jae Angel

 

Thanks for finding that

Well, it could be for two years in the past she was taller though, like when they were young teenagers, since girls go through growth spurts sooner than guys.

I thought it said in Elaine Cunningham's short story Jaina was smaller than her mom. Ahh so confused...

 

She was smaller than her mom in the short story. I took the quote in BP to mean that at one point she had been taller for about two years and so a joke formed out of it, not that she was taller now. At least that is how it sounded to me. I don't see her going from being smaller then Leia at 16 in the Crystal to being six feet tall a year or two later.

 

Tahiri? Willowy? Damn, none of the girls at my school are willowy! Then again, none of them can move objects with their minds, either...

 

Actually JMA, I would include Kyp and Ganner in the NJO. They are a decade younger than luke and are in a generation of their own. Though Kyp is a guy I can't seem to classify, he justs seems like he is his own man in a sense. The New Jedi Order can't just be cut up into little peices like that. I thinking more that every jedi that is post empire is part of the New Jedi Order. Really guys you act like 30 year old person is ancient, and actually till you are about 38(maybe higher) you are still in your physical prime. Anyway, most of the young jedi knights are pansies(possibly excluding the solo children) and given that they are older than Luke was in New Hope, I still find him to be more responsible and a better soldier than most of them, which is bad news for the YJK caause Luke was awful back then.

 

Ok, so where is this Elaine Cunningham short story and where can I find it? Plus, you realize that there has been some conflicting information in the EU at some points. In fact, I'm totally confused about Kyp's age because I think it says in the JAT that he's sixteen, but somewhere else it says he's eighteen during the same time period, and OH GOD I'M SOOOOOOO CONFUSED!!!!

Still, you do have a good point about the quote. It can be taken to mean that she was taller in the past. I just wish Kathy Tyers would have been a bit more specific, because without reading the Elaine Cunningham short story I was inclined to believe she was taller then. But yeah, if Jaina was around her mom's height at age 16 then it's pretty impossible she's around her dad's height during BP. So, I guess that would make Jaina somewhere in the 5'4" to 5'6" range, wouldn't it?

Jae Angel