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Qui-Gon and Vader's related burial type

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DemoShadow, Apr 13, 2003.

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  1. DemoShadow

    DemoShadow Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2003
    At the end of ROTJ Vader's body is burned. Lucas mentions this in the Ep1 commentary. In Episode 1 Qui-Gon is burned as well..but both are able to make contact with the living world. I find it interesting that these two force-users' bodies were burned, and them being able to come back, being the 1st and 6th episodes. Anyone have a comment on this?
     
  2. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    I think it's more than a coincidence. Anakin does not disappear in the film ROTJ, only in the movelization, and there are several other concepts that Lucas has changed or ignored from the novelizations.

    That being said, I wonder how common Jedi pyres really are? Where did Obi-wan and Luke get the idea from? (Not saying that it's the pyre that does it, I'm just wondering at how this particular coincidence came about.)
     
  3. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2001
    I think that cremation is a Jedi custom. In ANH, we see Obi-Wan burning the bodies of the Jawas. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn't do the same for Shmi, I guess it was Cleigg's call, not Anakin.
     
  4. SLR

    SLR Jedi Knight star 5

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    Oct 20, 2002
    Well according to Lucas, Luke only burned the suit. That Anakin disappeared at some point off screen. Whether this was always the intention or not or revisionist history, I don't know. But the latest Lucas statement is that Anakin's body was not in the suit when Luke burned it on Endor.
     
  5. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 23, 2000
    Actually, it was the OS that said that Anakin disappeared but on the TPM commentary, Lucas said he didn't disappear because Anakin was still in the suit while being torched.

    Also, only Yoda and Obi-wan learned of this technique so I doubt that Anakin is capable of disappearing.
     
  6. SLR

    SLR Jedi Knight star 5

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    Oct 20, 2002
    Anakin must be capable of disappearing, as he was seen w/ Yoda and Obi-Wan as a spirit at the end of ROTJ.
     
  7. ForceHeretic

    ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Dec 8, 2002
    I've always thought that when Luke burns the suit it's only the suit, symbolic of how Luke destroyed the evil man his father had become, and by burning the suit it brought peace to Luke as he was still giving Anakin a funeral
     
  8. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    "Anakin must be capable of disappearing, as he was seen w/ Yoda and Obi-Wan as a spirit at the end of ROTJ."

    Whether or not Anakin ever really vanishes, the assumption that one must disappear to "become one with the Force" is rendered void by Gui-gon.

    "on the TPM commentary, Lucas said he didn't disappear because Anakin was still in the suit while being torched. "

    Agreed. The website is generally kept as up to date as possible, but events have been changed on the descriptions when need be, and not everything is spelled out (probably for a reason.)

    Case in point, The Yoda description talks of Yoda hearing Qui-gon after his death, but the Qui-gon description ends at his death. I wouldn't be surprised if the Anakin description is later changed after Ep.III to keep us fanboys from figuring out the spoiler, or perhaps the explanation is less sinister, and someone simply hasn't bothered to change it.

    Regardless, I do know (though I have to find it) that one version of the ROTJ novelization had Anakin disappearing, and another version had him burned in the suit. I don't recall which came before the other. I'll get back to you on that. :)
     
  9. SLR

    SLR Jedi Knight star 5

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    Oct 20, 2002
    But as of yet, Qui Gon has not appeared in spirit form. This may happen in EP III. But until then, we can speculate that disappearing at death is the key to reappearing as a spirit.
     
  10. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Please see my edit of above post.

    BTW, remember that Obi-wan "disappeared", yet his first post-death manifestation was simply that of a voice as well.

    Of course, Yoda just "showed up", again implying that simply disappearing is not the end-all, be-all of becoming a Force ghost.
     
  11. DARTH-KAST

    DARTH-KAST Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 13, 2003
    I have had this theory for a long time. Here goes. Only the wise jedi disapear when they die. In ANH Obi-Wan Kenobi is struck down and vanishes. He was one of the wisest jedi who ever lived. In ROTJ, Yoda disapears. He was the wisest of all jedi. Qui-Gon was burnt because he lacked wisdom. Yoda warned
    him not to train Anakin, but he insisted he must. Anakin was unwise and became a sith lord by being seduced by the dark side of the force. This explains why these two were incinerated rather than vanishing. Sadly, I cannot account for the jedi killed in the arena battle at Geonosis. Maybe someone else can add to this.
     
  12. ForceHeretic

    ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Dec 8, 2002
    Well, an EU explanation would be that to dissapear at death a Jedi must "pull an obi"

    That means that when they die, the must reach out with the force and prepare themselves for the passing of spirit, so that their spirit and body will dissapear completely into the force

    So the Jedi in the arena had no time to stretch out with their feelings as they were killed while fighting, it takes concentration to do this which is why Obi-wan let Vader kill him, so he could become one with the force and continue to help Luke

    Whether Ep. III will render this incorrect I don't know, but we'll see
     
  13. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    Darth Kast i dont know?????
     
  14. padawanskywalker

    padawanskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 16, 2003
    Was Anakin's body even in the suit
     
  15. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    If you go strictly by the film, it would appear to be so. The website says otherwise. In the TPM DVD commentary, Lucas compares Qui-gon's funeral pye scene to Anakin's.

    Basically, it's a mixed bag. :(
     
  16. trinto_duaba

    trinto_duaba Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Dec 27, 2001
    It is my belief that the Jedi are traditionally cremated to set the midichlorians free.
     
  17. Aunecah_Skywalker

    Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 25, 2002
    I can see similarities between Anakin's and Qui-Gon's returns in Episode 6 and 2 respectively - both of them had something strong pulling them back into the world of reality: namely, Anakin's steady descent to the Dark Side for Qui-Gon and Luke's and Leia's ... thingiee ... to Anakin.

    On the other hand - Jedi probably cremate their subjects so that evil Sith don't find their bodies and make evil clones out of them. 8-}

    Aunecah
     
  18. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2000
    I think it's more than a coincidence. Anakin does not disappear in the film ROTJ, only in the movelization, and there are several other concepts that Lucas has changed or ignored from the novelizations.


    Actually, I've looked at the novel several times, and every time it places a body in that suit.
     
  19. Iron_Fist

    Iron_Fist Jedi Knight star 5

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    Jan 30, 2003
    Didn't Vader's body diappear after he asked Luke to take his mask off, when he died? Somewhere in the EU it mentions that Luke only burnt the suit, possibly in Truce at Bakura...
     
  20. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    But Lucas won't take EU into account for his story.
     
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