Qui-Gon and Vader's related burial type

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DemoShadow, Apr 13, 2003.

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  1. DemoShadow Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2003
    At the end of ROTJ Vader's body is burned. Lucas mentions this in the Ep1 commentary. In Episode 1 Qui-Gon is burned as well..but both are able to make contact with the living world. I find it interesting that these two force-users' bodies were burned, and them being able to come back, being the 1st and 6th episodes. Anyone have a comment on this?
  2. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I think it's more than a coincidence. Anakin does not disappear in the film ROTJ, only in the movelization, and there are several other concepts that Lucas has changed or ignored from the novelizations.

    That being said, I wonder how common Jedi pyres really are? Where did Obi-wan and Luke get the idea from? (Not saying that it's the pyre that does it, I'm just wondering at how this particular coincidence came about.)
  3. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    I think that cremation is a Jedi custom. In ANH, we see Obi-Wan burning the bodies of the Jawas. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn't do the same for Shmi, I guess it was Cleigg's call, not Anakin.
  4. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    Well according to Lucas, Luke only burned the suit. That Anakin disappeared at some point off screen. Whether this was always the intention or not or revisionist history, I don't know. But the latest Lucas statement is that Anakin's body was not in the suit when Luke burned it on Endor.
  5. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Actually, it was the OS that said that Anakin disappeared but on the TPM commentary, Lucas said he didn't disappear because Anakin was still in the suit while being torched.

    Also, only Yoda and Obi-wan learned of this technique so I doubt that Anakin is capable of disappearing.
  6. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    Anakin must be capable of disappearing, as he was seen w/ Yoda and Obi-Wan as a spirit at the end of ROTJ.
  7. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    I've always thought that when Luke burns the suit it's only the suit, symbolic of how Luke destroyed the evil man his father had become, and by burning the suit it brought peace to Luke as he was still giving Anakin a funeral
  8. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Anakin must be capable of disappearing, as he was seen w/ Yoda and Obi-Wan as a spirit at the end of ROTJ."

    Whether or not Anakin ever really vanishes, the assumption that one must disappear to "become one with the Force" is rendered void by Gui-gon.

    "on the TPM commentary, Lucas said he didn't disappear because Anakin was still in the suit while being torched. "

    Agreed. The website is generally kept as up to date as possible, but events have been changed on the descriptions when need be, and not everything is spelled out (probably for a reason.)

    Case in point, The Yoda description talks of Yoda hearing Qui-gon after his death, but the Qui-gon description ends at his death. I wouldn't be surprised if the Anakin description is later changed after Ep.III to keep us fanboys from figuring out the spoiler, or perhaps the explanation is less sinister, and someone simply hasn't bothered to change it.

    Regardless, I do know (though I have to find it) that one version of the ROTJ novelization had Anakin disappearing, and another version had him burned in the suit. I don't recall which came before the other. I'll get back to you on that. :)
  9. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    But as of yet, Qui Gon has not appeared in spirit form. This may happen in EP III. But until then, we can speculate that disappearing at death is the key to reappearing as a spirit.
  10. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Please see my edit of above post.

    BTW, remember that Obi-wan "disappeared", yet his first post-death manifestation was simply that of a voice as well.

    Of course, Yoda just "showed up", again implying that simply disappearing is not the end-all, be-all of becoming a Force ghost.
  11. DARTH-KAST Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2003
    I have had this theory for a long time. Here goes. Only the wise jedi disapear when they die. In ANH Obi-Wan Kenobi is struck down and vanishes. He was one of the wisest jedi who ever lived. In ROTJ, Yoda disapears. He was the wisest of all jedi. Qui-Gon was burnt because he lacked wisdom. Yoda warned
    him not to train Anakin, but he insisted he must. Anakin was unwise and became a sith lord by being seduced by the dark side of the force. This explains why these two were incinerated rather than vanishing. Sadly, I cannot account for the jedi killed in the arena battle at Geonosis. Maybe someone else can add to this.
  12. ForceHeretic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    Well, an EU explanation would be that to dissapear at death a Jedi must "pull an obi"

    That means that when they die, the must reach out with the force and prepare themselves for the passing of spirit, so that their spirit and body will dissapear completely into the force

    So the Jedi in the arena had no time to stretch out with their feelings as they were killed while fighting, it takes concentration to do this which is why Obi-wan let Vader kill him, so he could become one with the force and continue to help Luke

    Whether Ep. III will render this incorrect I don't know, but we'll see
  13. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Darth Kast i dont know?????
  14. padawanskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2003
    star 4
    Was Anakin's body even in the suit
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    If you go strictly by the film, it would appear to be so. The website says otherwise. In the TPM DVD commentary, Lucas compares Qui-gon's funeral pye scene to Anakin's.

    Basically, it's a mixed bag. :(
  16. trinto_duaba Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 3
    It is my belief that the Jedi are traditionally cremated to set the midichlorians free.
  17. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I can see similarities between Anakin's and Qui-Gon's returns in Episode 6 and 2 respectively - both of them had something strong pulling them back into the world of reality: namely, Anakin's steady descent to the Dark Side for Qui-Gon and Luke's and Leia's ... thingiee ... to Anakin.

    On the other hand - Jedi probably cremate their subjects so that evil Sith don't find their bodies and make evil clones out of them. 8-}

    Aunecah
  18. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I think it's more than a coincidence. Anakin does not disappear in the film ROTJ, only in the movelization, and there are several other concepts that Lucas has changed or ignored from the novelizations.


    Actually, I've looked at the novel several times, and every time it places a body in that suit.
  19. Iron_Fist Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 5
    Didn't Vader's body diappear after he asked Luke to take his mask off, when he died? Somewhere in the EU it mentions that Luke only burnt the suit, possibly in Truce at Bakura...
  20. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    But Lucas won't take EU into account for his story.
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