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Qui-Gon and Yoda

Discussion in 'Literature' started by wade1972, Oct 4, 2006.

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  1. wade1972

    wade1972 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 9, 2005

    I was curious about this and I wonder if anyone here would know the answer to this: Yoda was able to communicate with Qui-Gon around the time when Anakin killed the Sandpeople...or at least Yoda was aware of him in the Force. From that moment on, how complex did their conversations get? I'm sure at first it was hard, but then over time it got easier. I'm wondering because I wonder why Qui-Gon didn't tell Yoda about what Anakin had done.

    I also wonder if he could have told him about Palpatine. So does this mean that deep down Qui-Gon thought what would happen would be for the best? Or was he someone unable to say anything because of the 'I cannot interfere' rule?

    What do you all think about this?
     
  2. Havet_Storm

    Havet_Storm Jedi Master star 3

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    May 19, 2004
    It's likely that he didn't know about Palpatine - afterall immortality doesn't equal omnipotence. As for how complex their conversations became, Yoda was able to hear Qui-Gon say "Anakin, no!" in AOTC and by the end of ROTS they could have conversations complicated enough for Qui-Gon to teach Yoda the secret of immortality, so you can extrapolate from that that they could converse as well as any two living people could.
     
  3. StarByStar

    StarByStar Jedi Knight star 1

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    Apr 10, 2005
    I think, the way that scene was shot was that it was just a simultaneous view of both Yoda and Qui-Gon sensing Anakin's pain and anger. Im fairly certain Yoda wasnt aware of Qui-Gons presence. Not until ROTS,in the novel there is a conversation between the two.
     
  4. _ViE_AcheRoN_

    _ViE_AcheRoN_ Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 3, 2003
    Qui-Gon and Yoda talk in Dark Rendezvous.
     
  5. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Chosen One star 7

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    Aug 31, 2000
    yep..but I forgot what they talked about.
     
  6. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 28, 2004
    Qui-Gon said something like "He only thinks he's lying," referring to Dooku's plot to get to Yoda to come to him after expressing an interest in returning to the Jedi.
     
  7. Kwenn

    Kwenn Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 30, 2001
    R.A Salvatore begs to differ:

    And then he heard a voice, a familiar voice, crying, "No, Anakin! No! Don't! No!"

    It was Qui-Gon. Yoda knew that it was Qui-Gon. But Qui-Gon was dead, had become one with the Force! One could not retain consciousness and sense of self in that state; one could not speak from beyond the grave.

    [....]

    He wanted to focus on that, then, perhaps to try to follow that call back to the ghostly source, but he could not, overwhelmed again by the surge of rage and pain and...power.

     
  8. NJOfan215

    NJOfan215 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 17, 2003
    We really don't know th extent of qui-gon's capabilities as a force ghost. Obi-wan seemed to be oniscent, but obi-wan had been able to fully impliment the force ghost technique, since we never actual saw qui-gon it appears he didn't reach the same level. As for knowing about sidious, sidious was able to keep wimself hidden in the force, this technique could have been good enough tohide him from dead force ghost as well.
     
  9. Whiteley79

    Whiteley79 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Mar 19, 2006
    Doesnt yoda say somewhere in the ROTS novel that when the force speaks to him, it speaks with qui-gons voice? I think up until this point, he really wasnt sure what to think about qui-gon.
     
  10. wade1972

    wade1972 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 9, 2005
    I was just thinking that if he was able to see Anakin do that, that would have been one of the first things he'd say to Yoda after "hello".



     
  11. Havet_Storm

    Havet_Storm Jedi Master star 3

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    May 19, 2004
    Nah not really, he didn't show any knowledge that either his experiences, or his Jedi perceptions and wisdom wouldn't have granted him whilst he was alive.
     
  12. QuinineVos

    QuinineVos Jedi Master star 3

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    Jun 16, 2005

    I have a somewhat more abstract interpretation of this. First off, it's not so much that Qui-Gon's force ghost is omniscient or can "see" everything. It's not that Qui-Gon saw exactly what Anakin did. Rather, he and Anakin are strongly connected in the force, due to their short time together, so Qui-Gon senses Anakin's overwhelming rage and pain. He knows he is touching the Dark Side and that is where his "Anakin, no" comes from, though he does not know exactly what Anakin does. It is a similar sensation to Yoda's ("Young Skywalker is in great pain"), who similarly, senses the disturbance in the force, but cannot "see" as he is not omniscient, precisely what Anakin has done. Qui-Gon's connection is perhaps slightly more acute as he is more profoundly connected to Anakin. This would explain why Qui-Gon is unaware of the gravity of Anakin's continuing collapse.

    Qui-Gon's ability to communicate with Yoda has as much to do with their connection in the force as with the simple fact that Qui-Gon is a spirit. You never see Obi-Wan appear before Han or 3PO, for instance. And, for that matter, he doesn't appear before Anakin, who certainly could have used his guidance, because Anakin's attunement to the force is perhaps not profound enough either. This certainly would not suggest an all-powerful, all-knowing force spirit.

    As another example of this, Obi-wan is able to appear before Luke at the beginning of TESB, but only fleetingly, ethereally, certainly not in any kind of 2 way conversation, and only when Luke is most connected to the force (he has just succeeded in calling his lightsaber to him in the cave, a task that clearly required great focus on his part). However, after Luke's training by Yoda, Ben is able to carry on a full dialogue with Luke. (note TESB right before Luke leaves for Bespin). By the time of ROTJ, they're sitting down on a stump together practically having a tea party for God's sake! This indicates that the ability of a force ghost to communicate with the living has as much to do with the force connection of the living person as with the abilities of the ghost. It would also explain why Ben does not appear to Luke before TESB, but rather waits 3 years before telling him to go train with Yoda.
     
  13. StarByStar

    StarByStar Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2005


    R.A Salvatore begs to differ:

    And then he heard a voice, a familiar voice, crying, "No, Anakin! No! Don't! No!"

    It was Qui-Gon. Yoda knew that it was Qui-Gon. But Qui-Gon was dead, had become one with the Force! One could not retain consciousness and sense of self in that state; one could not speak from beyond the grave.

    [....]

    He wanted to focus on that, then, perhaps to try to follow that call back to the ghostly source, but he could not, overwhelmed again by the surge of rage and pain and...power.

    [/quote]



    Oops my bad,its been awhile since ive read the novel.
    Also, to go with the last post, Anakin Skywalker appeared to Leia in True At Bakura.
     
  14. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2001
    >And, for that matter, he doesn't appear before Anakin, who certainly could have used his guidance, because Anakin's attunement to the force is perhaps not profound enough either.<

    I think that it was actually Qui-Gon speaking to Anakin via a dream in Clone Wars Volume II, though there are several ways to interprete that scene.

    TC
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Qui-Gon also spoke to twelve-year-old Anakin in Rogue Planet, in which he explained that it was hard to talk to Obi-Wan.
     
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