PT Qui-Gon Jinn

Does anyone else find it strange that Master Jinn wasn't aware that mind tricks wouldn't work on Watto? It seemed like common knowledge that the Toydarians were resistant to mind tricks. Was he just being cocky, and thinking he could pull it off?

 

He was fairly short on options at that point. Maybe he just thought he'd try on the off chance.

 

Maybe it does work on some of them. He may not be weak minded enough for it to work on him. I think that's the factor that is of importance, more so than the race of the character.

 

It was odd how Watto mentioned a species when explaining his resiliance to the influence of the Force, but I guess that simply demonstrates that Toydarians have a history of being strong-minded. Despite Watto's status of a junk dealer in the Outer Rim, he still carries this trait.

I've always liked this scene as a tie-in to Return of the Jedi, when Jabba recognizes Luke's mind trick and isn't easily fooled.

 

I was just going off this quote...

Makes it sound like, in this case at least, they all are immune.

 

Since the Jedi master in the movie seems to think that there is a chance of success, I tend to side with the movie's interpretation of that. I think Jinn knows what he is doing. I don't put a lot of stock into those types of quotes at all.

That's just the way I choose to look at it


Edit: I just looked at that scene and Watto does mention his race as the reason, so I take all of that back. I guess I forgot that he actually said that.

 

So the conclusion is that either Jinn wasn't aware of the immunity of Toydarians, or arrogantly thought he could still perform the mind trick?

 

"That is why you fail."

 

Maybe he didn't know

 

There's likely thousands (upon thousands) of alien races across the galaxy. I don’t think it unreasonable to consider that Qui-Gon simply didn’t know, nor do I think it discredits his character. On the contrary, it shows how capable he is when resorting to bargaining/gambling tactics. And where the Jedi mind trick doesn’t work, the Jedi dice trick does.

 

Well, it certainly wasn't for the audience. As for an in-universe explanation, maybe Toydarians are hard to come by and he never met one. Or maybe he actually didn't know.

 

Fair enough. I am a Qui-Gon Jinn fan so I can live with him just not knowing.

 

I'm more concerned with his immoral behavior -- trying to trick an unsuspecting small businessman out of hard-earned money instead of just trading the Naboo skiff for a less fancy, but still working starship; separating a 9 year old boy from his mother; gambling; and cheating by using the force to manipulate the chance cube.

Oh, and then bringing that child to an active war zone and leaving him unsupervised.

 

That's true. Watto even said it would be cheaper just to buy a new ship. Also sent a kid into a dangerous podrace...

 

And who would trade a ship without a working hyperdrive?

He freed a slave and gave the boy and his mother a choice of a better life for her son.

Against a slave master in order to free slaves.

The boy was his responsibility and he didn't expect the Council to deny his training. And where would he leave him?

 

While I wouldn’t go so far to call his behavior immoral (Alexrd offers reasonable justifications on every point) I nonetheless think it important to recognize how Qui-Gon seldom hesitates to play it loose, so to speak, given whatever the circumstance. His methods depict the Jedi not as Dudley Do-Rights but as credibly crafty warriors. It really does harken back to the swordsmen heroes of Kurosawa’s films who were honor-bound but equally practical, resourceful and open to less-than-noble alternatives; as much tricksters as anything else. I always liked Qui-Gon’s line, "Greed can be a very powerful ally." It says a lot about how he finds solutions. Yet, again, I wouldn’t call him immoral. For example, he uses the Force to sway Boss Nass into giving them safe passage from the Gungan City, with both a transport and guide, but later tells Obi-Wan that such powers cannot be used to convince the Gungans to align with the Queen for war. It’s a moral issue. The first instance posed no real threat to, or exploitation of, Nass or his people; Qui-Gon was simply avoiding further complications and potential confrontation in order to help others in need. In the second instance it was vital that the Gungans decided for themselves to risk life and limb by joining with the Naboo, and to allow Amidala the chance to persuade them with leadership qualities in the manner of a humble peace offering.

 

More like a crafty sneaky slave-owning scumbag.

 

So it's OK to steal from someone if that person is bad in your eyes?

Watto didn't invent slavery and seems to have treated the slaves well. They had a home. And he didn't separate a 9 year old boy from his mother, unlike the Jedi.

 

I wish they showed a little of this grey thinking when it came to spying on the Nemoidians after they captured them, and blood testing the Senate, and monitoring communications to and from Coruscant. It would have served them well.

 

When does Qui-Gon steal from Watto?

 

I don't see why a Jedi should consider theft, of all things, to be immoral. Their morals are built on good and evil metaphysics and compassion, not necessarily societal laws. They do support the government structure of the Republic, but because they think that it's the best way to keep the galaxy safe. I've always thought that petty crimes ought to be far below their radar. Or atleast this applies to Qui-Gon maverick alcoholic bastard that he is.

If Watto was in danger of starving to death because of lost capital, I could see Qui-Gon balking at stealing from him. Otherwise the ugly lug is fair game.

 

The Jedi didn't separate a 9 year old boy from his mother either. The Jedi freed the boy. But hey, why point the obvious to those who want to ignore it...?

 

What? Taking something that does not belong to you is probably amongst the first rules in all moral systems, right after murder. Hey, maybe Qui-Gon should have just killed Watto and taken what he needed.

Maybe outright theft would have been less offensive than getting him involved in a rigged game.

 

But he didn't. It's a moot point.

 

First he tries to mind-trick him into accepting worthless money. When this fails, he tricks him into a rigged bet.