Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Jan 29, 2013.
Yoda started learning at the end of RoTS- from Qui-Gon's ghost.
By which point Mace is dead.
That doesn't explain Vader's apparent confusion at Obi-Wan's disappearance in ANH, in addition to not addressing why none of the other dead Jedi turn up.
Yeah, I read that book, it is really good.
No, and they should put Shaw back in as Anakin too. That change was bad enough.
With how jarringly awful it was seeing Hayden's stupid face as Anakins force ghost in that scene, it wouldn't surprise me if Lucas goes back to all the Obi wan ghost scenes in the OT and has Mcgregor be the ghost. That really would be a 'give up' moment.
That scene makes it feel like Force Ghosting is the stuff of legends, and Vader is mesmerized that Obi-Wan could have discovered such a power.
OKOK everyone on this board always talks about force ghosts and how they "learn" to do this...can someone fill be in where this is from? Ive never heard anything about training in "force Ghost"
At the end of ROTS Yoda tells Kenobi that Ginn had discovered the secret and that there is training for Kenobi to receive.
There are EU sources too if you like those.
Was this part of the original ROTJ or one of the additions in newer rendition? I just do not remember that at all, specifically the mentioning on Jinn.
I was talking about Ep III, not Jedi.
There isn't anything in the OT about force ghost training
AHHH thats right that does ring a bell now! I guess Ill have to rewatch E3 now haha Thanks!!
No, not another alteration to Jedi, it's good to see the people who taught Luke about the force watching over him, Qui Gon had nothing to do with Luke so it would be pointless to include him, The only change they should make is to add back Sebastian Shaw, at least he seems to acknowledge Obi Wan and Yoda unlike the totally out of place Hayden bloke, Vader died an old man and he should be seen as he was when he died. But no Qui Gon (even though he was the best part of TPM)
I don't really want them to add his force ghost because there are many jedi who are at least around his level that then should have their ghosts added as well. We need to remember there are a lot of EU characters who we just happen to not see in the films and a lot of really great jedi throughout the history of star wars, we are just introduced to a few in the films and anakin, yoda a luke are really the only historic ones i think. We can go back through history and KOTOR days to find some more mace windus and qui gons.
You know, if they decide to add Qui-Gon (after Luke turns around, like in the YouTube video in the original post) I would actually be fine with that. Qui-Gon was, after all, the first Jedi to learn of this ability, and despite never being in contact with Luke he was heavily involved with Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin both during his physical life and after it ended.
I don't think it's really that necessary for Qui Gon to be put at the end. I mean what does he have to do with Luke becoming a Jedi? I mean if Anakin was the hero of the OT I could see why but to me there is no need for Qui Gon to be added to the ending of ROTJ.
No Qui-Gon = No ghost Obi-Wan = No "Go to Yoda" = No Jedi Luke = No Force in balance.
Star Wars canon is a very precarious balance!
That argument leads to a never ending string of force ghosts,
There would have been people instrumental in Qui-Gon becoming a successful Jedi knight, and on and on and on and on to the beginning of time.
They didn't learn the method.
YODA: To Endor, go, we must.
QUI-GON: Now? I just got comfortable, there's a pizza on the way. And The Sopranos is on in half an hour. I really want to see what Tony does to Ralphie after that last blow up. What's happening at Endor, anyway?
YODA: A Jedi Knight, Anakin's son has become. Defeated, the Empire is. Pass on our fire to the new generation, we will.
OBI-WAN: I'm going. Luke will appreciate our presence.
OBI-WAN: Anakin's son.
QUI-GON: Oh... but I've never met him. It'd be weird. You guys go.
ANAKIN: Come on, I just learned how to put my young face on.
OBI-WAN: Yes, thanks so much for keeping that to yourself, Mr Deathbed Redemption. You're lucky the Alliance didn't get you alive.
ANAKIN: Yeah? Well I never really thanked you for cutting off my arms and legs. I'll make sure there's a fruit basket waiting for you tomorrow.
QUI-GON: Have fun, ladies. Give Larry my regards.
Neither did Vader, he just showed up.
Nobody ever taught him.
Obi-Wan and Yoda. Force ghosting has nothing to do with being "instrumental".
What? They didn't teach him anything. Tell me the scene to look and I'll go find it on my discs
And if it has nothing to do with being instrumental, there is no argument for Jinn being there, that's the context of my post
Qui-Gon is instrumental in the Jedi knowing the ability. But the ability is not the result of someone being instrumental, so there's no "never ending string". It is not granted. That survived Lucas' edit of the novel.
Then there is no reason for him to be in the scene, you agree. The argument being put forth is that Jinn should be in the scene because of his instrumental role in these events. You are taking that word out of it's context in this thread, something you do quite often.
And Anakin knowing the ability, that's a plot hole
"That argument leads to a never ending string of force ghosts,
There would have been people instrumental in Qui-Gon becoming a successful Jedi knight, and on and on and on and on to the beginning of time."
Those people didn't have the ability to Force ghost. Whether or not you see Qui-Gon, you're not going to see ghosts of people whose consciousness faded without them ever being able to ghost. You misrepresent the "Qui-Gon is instrumental" position to imply anyone instrumental should appear, which does not follow.