Qui-Gon ruined TPM!

Qui-Gon rocks! I know why they needed him.I cried my Maul stabbed him!

 

in my opinion qui gon should have died in ep2, like right in the begining then anakin having not been fully trained by quigon learns from obi-wan

 

I had enough of QG in TPM. I wouldn't want him to take more of Obi-Wan's screentime in Ep. II. I just wish Obi-Wan was Yoda's apprentice and he "found" Anakin. QG's character just helps to detract from any character development for Obi IMO.

 

He may of not needed to be in it, but in every SW movie, someone dies. Jango only lasted one movie, but no one says that he was worthless, anyways, QG did not ruin EI, He just added to it

 

ok furryjedi LISTEN. YES qui gon was the best character in TPM. YES liam neelson had the best acting in the movie. And qui gon was the most important characeter IN TPM!

What we are saying is that qui gon is NOT suppose to be the most important. He stole all of obi wans parts.

1. Descovering anakin
2. WANTING to train anakin
3. Taking it upon himself to train him when council refused to let anakin be trained.

theres more but i can't think of them now

 

But then you get into the "well george should have written it like this" disputes, over what characters should do what, who should kill who, etc.

 

^^^^

Most of our arguments are based on things hinted at by OW's dialogue in the OT. Things like saying Anakin was a good friend, that Yoda trained OW (although, from a stupid friggin point of view, I guess this still holds true), and that when OW first knew Anakin, he was a great pilot, not some "oops" kid who accidentally blew up a giant spaceship.

 

Actually, it's quite simple -- an important theme for George Lucas is the "Father/son, student/mentor" relationship, which is basically what QGJ and Obi-Wan represented.
Removing QGJ would have killed that theme entirely. Obi-Wan had just met Anakin, there's no way they could have developed that kind of relationship in E1 (or at least, no way they could have believably developed that kind of relationship in E1).

EDIT: And BTW, to bashers out there, the only one who can truly ruin a movie for you is you.

 

But I thought the father/son relationship that was being championed by Lucas was between QG and Anakin? Take QG out, replace him with Obi Wan, and there you have a great father/son relationship between OW and Anakin, and it even gives one of those great parallels to the OT that everyone likes.

the only one who can truly ruin a movie for you is you.

I'll remember this if I ever watch Battlefield Earth or Freddy Got Fingered.

 

"Take QG out, replace him with Obi Wan, and there you have a great father/son relationship between OW and Anakin"

As I said, doing this would not be believable at all, since OW and QGJ just met Anakin (and not to mention that OW was dubious of Anakin to begin with). A father/son relationship between either of them and the boy would be hard to justify.
OW and QGJ, on the other hand, have been close for years. It's pretty obvious that OW looks up to QGJ as much more than just a mentor.

"the only one who can truly ruin a movie for you is you.

I'll remember this if I ever watch Battlefield Earth or Freddy Got Fingered."

Go ahead, there are probably some people who found these to be good movies. As this board especially can show you, everyone has their opinions. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

A father/son relationship between either of them and the boy would be hard to justify.


Tell that to George, because I believe that's what he has said he's shooting for with Anakin and Qui Gon.

Also, I don't think it would be unbelieveable at all. In ANH, Luke and Ben, while not knowing each other previously, definitely develop a sense of a father/son relationship.

 

why is it unbelievable to think that lucas could develop a father son relationship between obi and anakin in TPM if he already did it with qui gon and anakin.

this is not hard to follow. this is what u do. take out Qui gon and REPLACE him with obi wan. see how simple that was. WOW i can't believe i was able to explain that.

 

"A father/son relationship between either of them and the boy would be hard to justify.

Tell that to George, because I believe that's what he has said he's shooting for with Anakin and Qui Gon."

If he did, then I for one think he failed to convey this.
Either way, my point is, the exclusion of QGJ would have hurt the movie because of the lack of a father/authority figure (sorry, but OW was too young and under-developed to fulfill this role).

"In ANH, Luke and Ben, while not knowing each other previously, definitely develop a sense of a father/son relationship."

Over the course of the trilogy, yes, but I would not say right away. They definitely had gotten close by the end of ANH, but I would say Luke looked up to Ben more as a great hero and sage (much as you would look up to a martial arts instructor).
Now, from movie to movie, their bond grew stronger, until eventually Luke saw Ben as a second father. But it was made pretty clear that Anakin was who Luke felt the father/son bond with.

 

"this is not hard to follow. this is what u do. take out Qui gon and REPLACE him with obi wan. see how simple that was. WOW i can't believe i was able to explain that."

It's not that simple at all.
Again, Obi-Wan was too young and under-developed to be a father figure.

And I still do not totally agree with the whole father/son relationship between QGJ and Anakin. From what I saw, it just wasn't there. I think Anakin respected Qui Gon, because 1) He was older, and 2) he was a Jedi knight.
It's pretty obvious to see that QGJ's death affected OW the hardest, though.

 

"Qui-Gon ruined TPM!"

Good god. How many threads do we need about this??

C-3PO: "Will this ever end?"

 

I don't think Qui-Gon harmed the plot of TPM any, but I think he'd have been a spanner in the works in AotC and that's why he had to die, leaving Obi-Wan - who knew NOTHING about Anakin bar what he'd been told - to soldier on as best he could.


Why do I always find a thread in which I want to post just when it's time to go home?! I will return!

 

Without Qui-Gon, Lucas could have used scenes between Yoda and Obi-Wan to show a father/son or mentor/student relationship. It would have been interesting to see Obi-Wan try to step out from Yoda's shadow on his first solo assignment, but still try to live up to his expectations.

DarthBane93 - Relax. I admitted in my first post that this thread's title was tongue-in-cheek.

 

Oh hew, that's beautiful, that would have been great character development. The young knight trying to step out of his master's shadow and "overreaching" just a tad.

 

Here is the slight problem with Obi-Wan and Anakin having the father/son relationship. There was only a 15 year gapin the age. Not really enough years to become either a father figure or a succesfull teacher. Also Obi-Wan allways followed the rules because of Qui-Gon lack of following. Without Qui-Gon Obi-would have just accepted the council's desicion.

Padawan Velvet Elfin

 

"Here is the slight problem with Obi-Wan and Anakin having the father/son relationship. There was only a 15 year gapin the age. Not really enough years to become either a father figure or a succesfull teacher."

Exactly my point!

"Also Obi-Wan allways followed the rules because of Qui-Gon lack of following. Without Qui-Gon Obi-would have just accepted the council's desicion."

Heh, this is a good point, also. Never thought about that actually.

 

"Here is the slight problem with Obi-Wan and Anakin having the father/son relationship. There was only a 15 year gap in the age. Not really enough years to become either a father figure or a succesfull teacher."

That's not really a problem. It would come into play as one of the reasons for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side - because he doesn't really see Obi-Wan as the authority figure that he should, and it hinders his training and discipline.

"Also Obi-Wan allways followed the rules because of Qui-Gon lack of following. Without Qui-Gon, Obi would have just accepted the council's desicion."

Without Qui-Gon, Lucas could have made Obi-Wan's character the rule-breaker who goes against the Council's wishes to train Anakin. The defiance he shows against the Council could also impact Anakin, who eventually takes Obi-Wan's disregard for the rules to a whole new level...

 

Yoda was his master at a certain period of his trainning.Remeber the younglings? He was trained then,and when he got older.He left to train with QG.The reason Anakin got trained by Obi-Wan was because of his age.QG rocks!

 

I love TPM, and I think Qui-Gon is a good character, but you know what? I completely agree with hew. Obi-Wan is easily one of my favorite characters of all time, and he was wasted in TPM. Having him discover Anakin and want to train him from the start would have made the events of II and III that much more dramatic and poignant.

 

It's kind of funny of the documentary on the dvd or it may have been one of those little featurettes, where liam nesson talks about how lucas is one of the greatest storytellers ever or of our time or something like that. But he didn't say anything about the best writer/director, and that's why tpm was ruined the acting, writing, and directing, not b/c of Qui-Gon at all.

 

TPM needs Qui-Gon. With this character we understand better why Obi-Wan has difficulties to put the bridle on Anakin. Obi-Wan was a padawan when Anakin was discovered and QG decided to take a boy with him and train him. Obi-Wan was very suspicious and he trained Anakin only because he promised so to his dying master. When he started training he was inexperienced and surely very ambitious with his young apperentice, a boy who was said to bring back the balance. A boy who was much stronger with the Force than him.

If there had been only Obi-Wan, he would have been in many ways like Qui-Gon and then it would have been more difficult (at least for me) to understand the complex between Anakin and Obi-Wan. IMO it was wise idea to separate QG and OB1 to two different characters.