Qui-Gon ruined TPM!

Yeah. Surely a ship with an astromech droid on it couldn't handle that! What was I ever thinking!

 

Astromechs can't do everything.

 

An astromechnical droid is not well suited to repair a ship...but a Jedi is?!?

I suppose when R2 by-passed the main power drive, that was "luck"? It's not as if those astromechnical droids are programmed to repair spacecraft and machinery! D o I really have to list all of the times when R2 repairs something (including the HYPERDRIVE in ESB) which in turn saves everyone's life?

 

R-2 would know what he was doing, but let's face it, he isn't lifting the damaged hyperdrive out of it's socket all on his own now is he? If it was just a matter of activating the hyperdrive (like in ESB), that's no problem. It's literally hitting a switch.

 

Obi-Wan was not spending all that time repairing the ship. No where is that mentioned and we certainly don't see him doing that at all. From everything we see in the film, after the initial diagnostic, Obi-Wan is doing nothing but sitting on that ship twiddling his thumbs for all we know, waiting for Qui-Gon call him at some point to tell him something. In fact pretty much the only thing they needed to get going was the hyperdrive by what we know. It could easily have been taken care of by the droids and by Nubians. They should have left Qui-Gon on the ship and sent Obi-Wan into town. Now that would have made some sense.

You leave the padawan to guard the whole royal entourage which included the Queen(even if they knew Padme was really the queen--the point is Padme was originally staying on the ship, she didn't join Qui-Gon going into town until the last minute)? Sitting out in the open, in the desert at the edge of town. Where, if anyone did happen to think to look for them on Tatooine, they would find them right away? Makes NO sense. Unless of course Qui-Gon was hoping someone might come along and kill his padawan.

Going into town to buy a hyperdrive is a job for a padawan in that kind of situation. Qui-Gon obviously thought buying the hyperdrive was going to be fairly easy and quick(it is apparent he thought he'd go in, go to some of the shops, flash his credits and get his parts, which is why he was so pissed when his credits didn't work and Watto wouldn't sell to him). So why didn't they send Obi-Wan into town to do this apparently fairly simple job?

If he had gone with Qui-Gon, he would have just gotten in the way.

LOL!! How would he have gotten in the way? It if was Anakin, I could understand someone saying that(I think that's part of the reason why he sent Anakin on that wild goose chase look around the nightclub while he went to "get a drink", he just knew if Anakin was with him at the bar, he'd spoil the plan and they'd end up with a shoot out or something in a crowded bar because he was hot head who didn't think before acted). But Obi-Wan? I'm sure he'd get in the way more than an idiot Gungan. And why the heck did R2 need to go with them? But Obi-Wan, well, he'd get in the way. LOL!

 

At least GL could have shot Obi Wan flirting with those handmaidens...would have added a new element to his line in the OT, ya know about being reckless...



And here's another reason why Kenobi should have gone instead of Qui Gon. You have the queen and Panaka, both aristocratic figures. Who will they respect more: the Jedi Master or some two bit apprentice? Would have made more sense for Qui Gon to stay behind, he could make sure Amidala and co. stay put and not do anything dumb. While Kenobi, who was the one to point out about the hyperdrive...well, since he sounds like he knows about that sort of stuff, should he not be the one to go look out for parts?

If he had gone with Qui-Gon, he would have just gotten in the way.

Oh yeah, and Jar Jar was very helpful.

 

They show Obi-Wan checking the hyperdrive unit as Qui-Gon heads into town, so yes they do show him doing something other than twiddling his thumbs, they just don't show every last second of him fixing the ship.
It's not like they both could have gone into town anyway, someone had to stay with the Naboo to keep them safe from the marauders who wouldn't think twice about raiding a ship in the remote outskirts of Mos Espa. And Obi-Wan commanded just as much respect from the Naboo as Qui-Qui Gon would have. There is no reason why they would try to walk all over Obi-Wan. Jar-Jar helps him blend in to the Mos Espa surroundings by being an alien.

So as you can see, the way the story ended up makes more sense than what many of you would have liked to have happened.

 

"And why the heck did R2 need to go with them?"

Artoo had the readout of the parts Qui-gon needed to buy.

 

Go-mer-tonic So as you can see, the way the story ended up makes more sense than what many of you would have liked to have happened.

I disagree. I am sure the story, as a stand alone piece, made sense to some people but not to all. However, the story as part of the saga really becomes weak.

All the other SW "chapters" have three main characters and another character who is important to the story but doesn't have as much screen time (all light-side characters).
OT: 3 main characters: L/L/Han
Other important character: ANH - Obi-Wan
ESB: Yoda
ROTJ: Lando?

Now in the PT, the three main characters should be OW/Padme/Ani. QG could have been made similar to OW in ANH or Yoda in ESB. Instead, QG, a character who dies at the end, becomes the single most imp. character in TPM. This is strange. It's almost as if once GL created QG and got LN to play him, he got more and more carried away and gave him tons to do.

I agree with most others here that QG and OW should have reversed roles. IN ANH, OW has an imp. part and he dies half-way. Imagine if Luke was hardly ever seen, OW had all the adventures and then died in the end in battle with Vader. Would be odd, indeed. That's what happened in TPM.

 

That would be silly, and it wouldn't make nearly as much sense. Narratively speaking of course. Lucas isn't trying to recreate the "formula" that worked for the classic trilogy, he is trying to tell a story, and the way he did it goes a long way to explaining the different themes in the film without actually having to use heavy exposition.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that you need Obi-Wan to go through the same loss Luke does in ANH, so that when Obi-Wan sacrafices himself, it takes on more meaning.

Obi-Wan is the important character in Episode II, and with Qui-Gon dying in Episode I, Phantom Menace is the only time he will get to shine.

I also love the way it all ties into the chain of Master Padawan from Yoda to Anakin.

 

"You have the queen and Panaka, two aristocratic figures. Who will they respect more: the Jedi Master or some two bit apprentice?"

They would respect the Jedi Master because he is the most experienced of the two, has all the answers, and knows what to do when they are in situations such as being forced to land on Tatooine to find a new hyperdrive engine while the apprentice doesn't know jack, sometimes messes up, and gets in trouble so it is fitting that they would have Qui-Gon look for the parts.

Obi-wan only pointed out the hyperdrive when Qui-Gon was about to leave the ship but not while they were escaping from the Trade Federation.

 

while the apprentice doesn't know jack, sometimes messes up, and gets in trouble so it is fitting that they would have Qui-Gon look for the parts.

Oh please, it's quite apparent that Obi-Wan would have been perfectly capable of going into town for the parts and more than that, if what you say was true, that's all the more reason to leave Qui-Gon with the ship, so the "screw up apprentice", which Obi-Wan isn't but none the less, you don't leave the apprentice guarding the royal entourage.


So as you can see, the way the story ended up makes more sense than what many of you would have liked to have happened.

No, it doesn't make more sense. It makes more sense to send the apprentice, who actually seems to know something about hyperdrives, into town to buy the part.

As for R2 having the information, all they needed was the hyperdrive--they didn't need R2 for that. They knew what hyperdrive they needed. They weren't buying anything else.

Obi-Wan is the important character in Episode II, and with Qui-Gon dying in Episode I, Phantom Menace is the only time he will get to shine.

But Qui-Gon didn't need to shine and he certainly didn't need to take over the whole damn film. And in EP II we are back to the 3 main character form of telling the story, so no Obi-Wan is not "the important character in EP II".

Obi-Wan died partway through ANH, how about killing off Qui-Gon in the desert battle with Maul, now that works. Arrange it so Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan what he thinks about Anakin before he goes to retrieve him and then it would make perfect sense for Obi-Wan, due to the grief at his master's death in order to honor his memory, taking up Qui-Gon's cause despite perhaps disagreeing with him when Qui-Gon mentioned it. Perfect.

Kill Qui-Gon off on Tatooine, give Obi-Wan the rest of the film to form the real beginnings of a relationship with Anakin and for the audience to begin to develop his character. It all works. And none of it requires Qui-Gon to be take over the whole bloody film while Obi-Wan stands in a corner and gets no character development.

 

Personally, if I were Qui-Gon, I would have made Obi-Wan wait at the ship while I went in to find the parts. Qui-Gon knew just as much about what they needed, and it was up to him to gradually give Obi-Wan more responsibility.

R2 had to go with because it wasn't as simple as just asking for a J-Type nubian hyperdrive, he needed specific parts that would fit the custom made ship. There were details that could be more easily remembered by R2.

If Lucas had killed Qui-Gon on Tatooine, then there would have been no room for Obi-Wan's character arc, because there would be no time to apologise for second guessing him.

Really, it makes much more sense all the way around the way Lucas did it.

 

If Lucas had killed Qui-Gon on Tatooine, then there would have been no room for Obi-Wan's character arc, because there would be no time to apologise for second guessing him.


Sure there would have been. It just would have been a slightly different way of showing it. Obi-Wan's taking on of Anakin's cause, in this case, without Qui-Gon directly asking him to do it. It actually would have made it all the more poignant while actually giving Obi-Wan some real proactivity and not just having his whole character arc from beginning to end be "Well..um...Qui-Gon told me to".

Not to mention actually showing Obi-Wan interacting with people as his own person as opposed to standing behind his master and doing nothing up until the last ten minutes of the film would have given plenty of time to show real character development by actually showing Obi-Wan as a character really doing stuff, making his own decisions, etc.

It makes no sense to argue he got more character develoment being stuck in the background until the last ten minutes of film than he would have had he actually been up front for half the film. And it would have had the benefit of giving him and Anakin opportunity to interact and start forming a relationship that people might care about. Everything else is still in place, Obi-Wan's relative youth, his guilt, his not necessarily doing it because he believes Anakin is the Chosen One but because he's honoring his fallen master, etc.

 

The way Lucas does it, there is no "well Qui-Gon told me to do it." And that's the point. He could have said that, but because he is the straight arrow, he takes reponsibility for his own actions.

Your way would lose that, along with all that killer detail on the Master/Padawan relationship.

Obi-Wan's character development hinges on what Qui-Gon represents, so in my mind, Qui-Gon's character development contributes to Kenobi's.

 

Go-Mer-Tonic
Your way would lose that, along with all that killer detail on the Master/Padawan relationship.

Obi-Wan's character development hinges on what Qui-Gon represents, so in my mind, Qui-Gon's character development contributes to Kenobi's.

We have to differ on that one. For me, the character development of Obi-Wan really suffered as a result of his miniscule screen time. It's thanks to Ewan's incredible acting potential that we can now try to make out what his character was going through, from subtle looks, glances and body language.

Heck, Obi-Wan is one of the most beloved characters of the OT, yet he died halfway through ANH. Then we got to see how Luke, on his own, interacted with Han, Leia and had an easy relationship with Biggs and the rebels. This did not take away from the Obi-Wan-Luke relationship in ANH, which is beautifully established - Ben was Luke's "good-father" figure. Luke's character development in ANH did not hinge on what Obi-Wan represented, so why should Obi-Wan's development be singularly dependent on Qui-Gon?

We hardly saw Obi-Wan exchange two words in TPM with anyone other than Qui-Gon. And he didn't do much (besides the end duel) to show what kind of person he was, what kind of Jedi he was, how he got along with people. Everyone agrees that Qui-Gon is warm towards people. In contrast, according to some, Obi-Wan is a "cold fish". Well, the reason is: Obi-Wan is always left behind - he never gets to meet people! And he exchanges just one sentence with Anakin, the boy who will be so important in his life, and who, in turn, will have one of the deepest and most troubled relationships of his life, with Obi-Wan.

 

I personally don't see why we needed more Kenobi. He wasn't integral to the story all the time, and to focus on him because he is "Ewan McGreggor" or because he was one of the "cool characters" from the classic trilogy sort of goes against the philosophy of being true to the story.

In the end, Kenobi gets more screentime than Qui-Gon, that should be enough for you...

(couldnt' resist the quote)

I can't imagine why anyone would say he was a "cold fish". I thought every time he was on screen taking jabs at Qui-Gon, he proved himself to have the better sense of humor of the two.

 

that should be enough for you...

[waves hand]

No it won't!

that will be enough for you ...
[waves hand]

No it won't!
Mindtricks don't work on me, only more screen time for Obi!

 

I want to throw out that Qui-Gon is a very important character in the PT. As we found out in Epi.II Qui-Gon is the first Jedi to came back as a spirit.

 

>>>Luke's character development in ANH did not hinge on what Obi-Wan represented

Really?

 

You Obi fans need to really stop complaining about the lack of Obi's screen time.

It made sense that Qui went into Tatooine and one stayed on the ship...to protect the Queen (at least they thought that was the Queen on the ship). That was Obi's job, to protect the people on the ship and to make sure no transmissions were made.

The more experienced person (that being Qui-Gon) went into town to deal with strangers and such. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

You got it wrong Jar Jar Binks ruined the movie big time. Qui-gon rules!!!!!

 

Really, Jar-Jar didn't ruin the movie either.

 

That's your opinion.

IMO, Jar-Jar was ONE of many lame and stupid characters/plot devices that helped to sink TPM...Qui-Gon was another one.

 

And that's yours.

I am not sure how you can claim a movie that did as well as TPM has somehow been "sunk".