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Qui-Gon ruined TPM!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by hew, Sep 7, 2002.

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  1. SomeRandomNerd

    SomeRandomNerd Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 1999
  2. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "Oh please, it's quite apparent that Obi-wan would have been perfectly capable of going into town for the parts and more than that, if what you say was true, then it's all the more reason to leave Qui-Gon with the ship, so the "screw up apprentice, which Obi-wan isn't none the less, you don't leave the apprentice gaurding the royal entourage."

    Wrong, you must leave the apprentice with the royal entourage because as we saw in the film, he didn't know nor did he discover where to find a new hyperdrive engine but Qui-Gon has.

    All Obi-wan did was point out that they needed a new hyperdrive and you can't send out someone who doesn't know where to find one knowing that he'll waist too much time thus leaving Queen Amidala and her royal entourage stranded on Tatooine forever.

    Send out someone who DOES know where to find a new hyperdrive engine and only Qui-Gon knew so it is appropriate to have him go find the new hyperdrive engine.
     
  3. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Send out someone who DOES know where to find a new hyperdrive engine and only Qui-Gon knew so it is appropriate to have him go find the new hyperdrive engine.

    Huh??? What, is Qui Gon a native of Tatooine? Why is he the only one who knows where to find this mysterious, elusive hyperdrive? Heck, one might ask why can't any of the mechanics go find it. It's just a hyperdirve. Just show the hologram thingy and the owner of any shop can direct you to the parts. Have Artoo verify it, keep it away from Jar Jar. Full stop.

    It does not require anything special that only Qui Gon could do it.

    Wrong, you must leave the apprentice with the royal entourage because as we saw in the film, he didn't know nor did he discover where to find a new hyperdrive engine but Qui-Gon has.

    (my emphasis there)

    This is very funny. It's because of the fact that we saw it in the film that we are disputing it. If you're gonna use a blanket 'It's in the film, don't argue' approach, then you might as well call for a JC Inquistion against us heretics (and heresy originally meant 'choice' *shrug*)

    [face_mischief]
     
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    You have to separate what was possible from what ended up happening. Sure, Qui-Gon might have chosen to have his Padawan venture into Mos Espa, but as the Master, it was up to him and he wanted to do the exploring himself. He had to give Obi-Wan some responsibility, so he left him with the ship.

    If I were Qui-Gon, that's exactly how I would have handled it.
     
  5. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "Why is he the only one who knows where to find this mysterious, elusive hyperdrive?"

    Because noone onboard Queen Amidala's ship has ever been on Tatooine before while Qui-Gon has been through every planet throughout every assignment given to him and knows what to do while he's on those planets.

    Qui-Gon is an expert in finding things so it wouldn't be too hard for him to find a simple hyperdrive engine.
     
  6. Menlu

    Menlu Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2001
    'I am not sure how you can claim a movie that did as well as TPM has somehow been "sunk".'

    Funny, was just thinking about this.
    Kind of amusing listening to people who claim that TPM was a failure, yet it somehow managed to gross almost $1 billion worldwide, with countless people seeing it multiple times.

    *shrugs*
    I'll let the box office numbers speak for themselves.
     
  7. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Because noone onboard Queen Amidala's ship has ever been on Tatooine before while Qui-Gon has been through every planet throughout every assignment given to him and knows what to do while he's on those planets.

    (my emphasis there)

    Huh??? Again I have to ask, did I miss a part of the movie which said this??? I'm sure I would have remembered if someone said "Qui Gon the Jedi Master, he has ventured to every planet in the galaxy! Yippie!"

    Qui-Gon is an expert in finding things...

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] What, he has a PhD in "Searchology" or something?

    *dies laughing*

    [face_mischief]
     
  8. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Qui-Gon may of been to Tatooine before, but I don't read EU material.
     
  9. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Great, so now we have to rely on the EU to fill in the gaps. My my, great storytelling.

    [face_plain]
     
  10. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    I hope you weren't directing that comment at me.
     
  11. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    No, at Lucas, the supposedly 'master storyteller' who now has to rely on merchandising to fill in gaps in the story which he doesn't bother to fill in himself. Instead, he just busies himself with creating even more CGI characters that aren't integral to the story.

    ;)
     
  12. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Nice try, but I'm getting sick of this defending now. Tell your fellow bashers, I don't care anymore. Not going to change my beliefs though...
     
  13. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Here, have a tissue.

    [face_laugh]
     
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    You only have to rely on the EU if you are going to have a kaniption because Qui-Gon went into town while Obi-Wan stayed on the ship.
     
  15. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    [Kenan and Kel]Kaniption???[/Kenan and Kel]

    No, what I'm looking for dear sir, is why Qui Gon was the only one in the ship who could perform a simple an errand as looking for spare parts? I certainly didn't see any expertise on his part. He had a gadget which displayed the type of ship to Watto, and Artoo could verify the parts. So that certainly negatives any theory that Qui Gon had any "special" knowledge on how to get the parts, when Obi Wan could have done it too, if all the tools (specifically, ship hologram thingy and Artoo) were given to his disposal.

    Hmmm?

    [face_mischief]
     
  16. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Qui-Gon was the Master, Obi-Wan was the Apprentice.

    Can I have that tissue please?
     
  17. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    By your logic, then Anakin in AOTC should have just stayed in the Jedi temple doing nothing while Master Kenobi goes to investigate and protect the Queen.

    My point is that Kenobi was left with nothing to do. Nothing. Zero. In a scale unparelled to other characters in other shows safe maybe Anya in Buffy season 5 and Deanna "I sense the obvious" Troi in Star Trek TNG.

    I'm open to alternatives, like maybe Kenobi doing something while Qui Gon goes to Tatooine (ah, flirting with handmaidens would be my first choice ;)).

    [face_mischief]

    Oh yeah, the tissue:

    [image=http://www.kleenex.com/us/products/everyday/images/upright/M_almond.jpg]
     
  18. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Obi-Wan's list of things to do:

    1) Listen to the transmission from Naboo and tell Master Qui-Gon.
    2) Searched around the ship to look for bartering material, like the Queens Wardrobe.
    3) Make sure no-one sends any transmissions.
    4) Examine the blood sample from Qui-Gon.
    5) Fix the hyperdrive generator when it arrives.
    6) Protect the "Queen" from the disturbance in the force.
    7) Flirt with the hand-maidens on board. ;)

    That's about it I think. Tear it down at your pace please. :)
     
  19. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Oooh, mesa like lists! Yes, now here's something we can bite on, my precious! (and see, this will be much more fun than provoking people in the Sanctuary ;))

    1) Listen to the transmission from Naboo and tell Master Qui-Gon. (my emphasis)

    His own actions? Nay, still relating back to Qui Gon. The guy has no personality of his own, the character is always related back to Qui Gon. Just like Anya is always Xander's girl, nothing else.

    2) Searched around the ship to look for bartering material, like the Queens Wardrobe.

    Again, at the demand of Qui Gon. But then, did he actually search? The line was "The Queen's wardrobe, maybe..." UNLESS he searched the wadrobe on his own earlier because he was...curious...*cough* [face_mischief]

    3) Make sure no-one sends any transmissions.

    *Ahem* Qui Gon's orders.

    4) Examine the blood sample from Qui-Gon. (my emphasis)

    Yup, it's all Qui Gon. Keep this up and you're gonna make my point for me.

    5) Fix the hyperdrive generator when it arrives.

    So, Kenobi has knowledge on the hyperdrive? Then why didn't he go out and find the parts, make sure they're correct? [face_plain]

    6) Protect the "Queen" from the disturbance in the force.

    Ummm...why does the Queen need protection from disturbance in the Force? She's not a Jedi, you know.

    7) Flirt with the hand-maidens on board.

    Sigh...I wish. Uncle GL of course doesn't want to subject kids to that sort of thing, he just wants to show a teenaged Queen hitting on an underaged boy. Or a lying Jedi Master flirting with a slave woman.

    [face_mischief]
     
  20. Moriarte

    Moriarte Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2001
    OH Jebus, come on. Sure Obi-Wan could have gone down and done it, but the simple fact is that Qui-Gon decided to do it himself. If you want a job done right, do it yourself. He wanted to get out of there fast, originally, so he, again, decided to do it himself to speed things up. Not that he doesn't trust Obi-Wan. It's the simple fact that you can trust yourself more than another person.

    There you have, it was a decision he made, boo-hoo, who cares!

    Ciou-See the Sig
     
  21. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    [Luke]I care[/Luke]. It's not a question of who does it or not, it's a question of Kenobi left with nothing to do. Then there's continuity: now the lines in ROTJ are meaningless, with GL using the 'certain point of view' as his excuse everytime continuity is screwed up.

    And as for the 'boo-hoo', I did provide the Kleenex. Or do you want a different colour?

    :p
     
  22. DarthBane93

    DarthBane93 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Sheesh.

    Fact: Qui-Gon is more experienced than Obi.

    Thus, he is the one to go out and find the hyperdrive parts. His experience, his postion as a Jedi Master make it suitable for him to be going out to get the parts instead of Obi.

    Funny how Obi fans dont complain that the reverse happens in AOTC. Obi is the master. He goes out and solves the mystery while Anakin just stays away and protects the Queen.

    To anyone who bashes what I just said, all I have to say is:

    "Awwww...cannot get your ship out!"
     
  23. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Funny how Obi fans dont complain that the reverse happens in AOTC. Obi is the master. He goes out and solves the mystery while Anakin just stays away and protects the Queen.

    (my emphasis there)

    Exactly! Was his character neglected? NO!. Wa have a bombad adventure ranging from the plains of Naboo, to a kinky scene at the fireplace ;) And of course, Tatooine where Anakin goes around killing innocent (or not so innocent, depending on one's stance of 'collateral damage' [face_plain]) people without any of these events relating back to Obi Wan. Heck, he doesn't even know of them.

    Look at ANH. It could have easilty happened the same way as TPM. Luke just sits there with the droids, while Han and Obi Wan switch off the tractor beam and go rescue the princess? Was this what happened? NO!

    And the fact that Anakin went on his own adventure in AOTC again proves that there is no "Padawan stays home, Master goes out" rule. Nope.

    Different situation from TPM, dear sir. Unless you have argument to prove otherwise.

    "Awwww...cannot get your ship out!"

    You know, it's really easy for me to respond in kind. Typing four letter words does not require deep thinking. Yup, despite what McCallum (or however the heck the name is spelled :p) would tell you ;) But no. It's not worth it. I'd rather be banned for participating in one of the dramas in 'Communications' along with the 'drama queens' there rather than be banned for my opinions about a movie. Unless you think GL is Pope or something, in which case I can't help you there.

    [face_mischief]
     
  24. SomeRandomNerd

    SomeRandomNerd Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 1999
    >>>>It's the simple fact that you can trust yourself more than another person.

    Unless, of course, you're Obi Wan, and despite thinking training Anakin was dangerous, you take on his training because of your great faith in your deceased master...


    >>>Look at ANH. It could have easilty happened the same way as TPM. Luke just sits there with the droids, while Han and Obi Wan switch off the tractor beam and go rescue the princess? Was this what happened? NO!

    But the droids just stayed around and didn't do anything. So are they "wasted characters"?

    >>>And the fact that Anakin went on his own adventure in AOTC again proves that there is no "Padawan stays home, Master goes out" rule. Nope.

    Anakin's adventure was clearly disobeying his orders- AOTC made it clear that his "adventure" was breaking the rules of emotional attachment, his orders of keeping Padme safe, even of not travelling on the Naboo cruiser!

    And trying to say that Obi Wan protecting the "queen", on a damaged starship unable to move, and staying in the safest place they have, is completely different to Anakin protecting the senator, and staying in the safest place they have, seems to be missing a big point about how good a Padawan Anakin was.
     
  25. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    The droids wasted? Perhaps. Though not as bad a they were in AOTC. Threepio was reduced as nothing more than a Jar Jar wannabe. At least Artoo got to fly [face_laugh]

    Unless, of course, you're Obi Wan, and despite thinking training Anakin was dangerous, you take on his training because of your great faith in your deceased master...

    Oh yes, e-mail GL that the line in ROTJ should be changed:

    Original: "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda...I was wrong."

    Ultra Edition: "I thought I could train him because, well, Qui Gon told me. Really, it's not my fault! And anyway, I did just as well as Yoda. The old guy's Padawan also turned to the dark side, so hey, nobody's perfect Luke! Anyway, your dad was just a big brat who wanted to get into Padme's....that's your mother's name, by the way...pants! Bah! Chosen One indeed!"

    Luke's reaction?

    "NOOOOOO!!!" (they will of course, dub that from ESB, just like the SE ESB 'scream' was 'cleverly' dubbed from the Emperor's schriek in ROTJ)

    [face_mischief]
     
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