Qui-Gon ruined TPM!

Actually if Qui-Gon did not insist on training Anakin we would not have the Star Wars movies. He should be credited for at least bringing out the best villian in cinema in Darth Vader.

 

Who ever said Qui-Gon was the only one who could have gone into town? The point is he decided to do it, so Obi-Wan had to stay behind with the ship. It just makes more sense storytelling wise, because Qui-Gon Jinn was in charge. Obi-Wan had to guard the ship it wasn't like there was no reason for him to stay behind. When Anakin went off on his own, it was by order of the Jedi council. In that instance they were in charge. Why would anyone want it to be different? If you wanted it differen, how did you want it?

 

Lurking Around:

I am sorry. I was under the impression that the SW saga is wholly a story about, and I repeat about Anakin Skywalker. I do believe GL said something like that.

To compare why Anakin had a side adventure with the Queen in AOTC vs. Obi not having a side adventure in TPM while Qui was out and about on Tatooine is not a good comparison because the story really is about Anakin. How he is found. How is became Obi's apprentice. His relationship with Padme. How they got married. How he fell to the darkside. And then how he came back to the good side.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

>>>Original: "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda...I was wrong."


I thought it was "I took it upon myself to train him"- as in "I thought he had to be trained, nobody else would do it, so I took it upon myself."

 

Hang on, I'll pop in the ROTJ VCD...

Ben's lines in ROTJ about Anakin goes like this:

"Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

As I posted earlier, major cxhanges are needed for that in the Ultra Edition, no?

I am sorry. I was under the impression that the SW saga is wholly a story about, and I repeat about Anakin Skywalker. I do believe GL said something like that.

Did that prevent the characterizations of Luke and co. in the OT? Did that excuse ensured Luke was given nothing to do while the story only revolved around Vader/Anakin? Nope.

It's not like I'm asking for a detailed background of Ric Ollie or Zam (though more scenes of Zam would be nice! OK, forget I said that ). This is Obi Wan, certainly he deserves more. Instead, who do we get, Qui Gon who only lasted one bloody movie, and whose importance ends there. Unless there is a guarantee of him appearing in Episode 3 (let me gues, another "Anakin NOOOO" like in AOTC? CGI Neeson? ). I would much rather have the frienship stated in the ROTJ dialogue above explored rather than watching "Qui Gon and Jar Jar's Excellent Adventure".

 

I think you are being petty, and I don't see the problem myself. Obi-Wan was given the amount of screentime that was needed. I am not sure what you think we are missing out on, but Padawans are by definition background observers, and have to do what their Master's tell them to do. Even when they play a larger role later on and even when they are portrayed by Ewan McGreggor.

Also, there are no contradicitons in that line from ROTJ you just posted.

 

NO contradictions? Oh yeah, Yoda was the picture perfect Master! His Padawan didn't go to the darkside! Obi Wan was the stupid one!

Remind me again about the old dude with the red saber in AOTC....



And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Good friends??? Yeah right, in the sense that Bush and Gore were good friends



I am not sure what you think we are missing out on, but Padawans are by definition background observers, and have to do what their Master's tell them to do

(my emphasis)

Ummm...did you by any chance watched AOTC? Remember, Padawan going on mission....with Senator...includes stalker dialogue and shirtless scene...ring any bells?

 

>>>>Oh yeah, Yoda was the picture perfect Master! His Padawan didn't go to the darkside

I don't think Dooku was Yoda's padawan.
Besides, I would presume that he'd graduated many, many years before AOTC. I'd say the 10 years (or however long) outside the Jedi Order had more to do with his Sithyness than Yoda's lessons when he was 8.

>>>Good friends??? Yeah right, in the sense that Bush and Gore were good friends

No, in the sense that "he's like a father to me."

>>>>Ummm...did you by any chance watched AOTC? Remember, Padawan going on mission....with Senator...includes stalker dialogue and shirtless scene...ring any bells?

Anakin Skywalker: the model padawan?

 

Empahsis on the word model there, as in fit to be model for 'Playgirl'!







If being an arrogant, cocky brat is the definiton of a good Padawan, then bring on the Jedi purge!

 

If being an arrogant, cocky brat is the definiton of a good Padawan, then bring on the Jedi purge!

LOL!

You left out whinny and *****-whipped though!

 

So Yoda taught Dukoo, that doesn't mean it's Yoda's fault he later decided to turn to the dark side. There is no contradiction here.

Jedi Padawan's are supposed to be well mannered, but Anakin was too headstrong and immature.

Thats called a contrast, not a contradiciton.

Do you have anything to offer besides your incorrect assumptions that are being contradicted, or is this all about how you can't let go of the things you got wrong 20 some years ago?

edit- Oh the irony of detractors suggesting that purging arrogant cocky whiners is a step ion the right direction.

 

Lurking_Around Just wanted to give you a round of applause for witty repartee and deliciously pointing out the obvious, over and over!

But then, did he actually search? The line was "The Queen's wardrobe, maybe..." UNLESS he searched the wadrobe on his own earlier because he was...curious...*cough*
LOL! Poor, bored Obi-Wan!

You know, what's worse, of course is that both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan knew that Sabe was the decoy and Padme was the queen (remember their secret smile at Padme's revealation to Boss Nass?) So, Obi-wan was actually left behind protecting the handmaidens and acting as a decoy himself! I guess Qui-Gon's sour look when Padme asked to come along meant "Damn, now Obi-Wan has even less to do. I hope the boy doesn't get into mischief".

 

I wish Obi-Wan had been left behind on Coruascant the whole time. Qui-Gon could have mentioned him a couple of times and then laugh out loud.

Qui-Gon: "Oh I have lots of stories about that crazy Obi-Wan, heh heh... just like Yoda will describe him after the purge!"

 

Bingo Go-Mer! If he's gonna be wasted, then why should he be in TPM? It's like what I'll say about Anya in Buffy season 5! If she doesn't have any character development nor any function in the "Scooby gang", then why is she a regular??? Same thing with Kenobi. If he isn't gonna be doing anything, if all the parts meant to him go to Qui Gon, then he shouldn't have been there. He should have a more worthy introduction.

See, I love it when people make my points for me!



And thanks forever_jedi Heh heh, believe me I'd have a better view of TPM if Obi Wan had gotten into some...mischief.

 

Just because Obi-wan had nothing to do during the Tatooine segment doesn't mean that he has no role in the prequals whatsoever.

During the time of TPM, Obi-wan is a padawan and padawans do not make decisions for themselves because they don't have the experience or the answers for whatever decisions they have to make which is why they rely on their masters to tell them what to do until they have learned all they need to know which then they'll be promoted to Jedi Knight.

Once that happens, then they will make their own choices but for now it is the masters who decide what is best and Qui-Gon decided to find the parts by himself and if that means not giving Obi-wan anything to do, then too bad.

 

>>>It's like what I'll say about Anya in Buffy season 5! If she doesn't have any character development nor any function in the "Scooby gang", then why is she a regular?

Her role in series 5 sets up what happens in Series 6 though. Without the set up of her relying on him so much, the actual events towards the end of Series 6 would have far less impact, assuming they still made any sense.

Same thing with Obi Wan.

Obvious, really...

 

Her role in series 5 sets up what happens in Series 6 though. Without the set up of her relying on him so much, the actual events towards the end of Series 6 would have far less impact, assuming they still made any sense.

But does she need to be a regular? Sorry, but I've seen non-regulars better fleshed out, with more solid characterizations, than Anya in season 5 (top of my mind: Buffy's mom and Tara). So she is a wasted regular, just as Kenobi was wasted in TPM. Tara continued on well, without being a regular in season 5. Heck, she gets her own episodes! Even relate to other people (such as sharing the grief of losing her mom with Buffy) instead of just being Willow's lover, unlike Anya who only remined as Xander's girl. Heck, Tara's death has probably sparked the biggest outcry in among fans, rivalling even that of Doyle's in Whedon's other show My feelings for Anya can be best summed up by this quote from Giles:

"Yes, Anya, apart from your incredibly uninfectious enthusiasm, have you anything to contribute?"

If I may rephrase that for Obi Wan in TPM:

"Yes, Kenobi, aside from looking like you have a lightsaber stuck up your 'English Channel', have you anything to contribute?'



Just because Obi-wan had nothing to do during the Tatooine segment doesn't mean that he has no role in the prequals whatsoever.

Did I say prequels? I said TPM. What I did say is that instead of Lucas doing half the jopb of splitting the personas of Kenobi into young Obi (who gets to do nothing) and Qui Gon (who gets to do all the stuff meant for Kenobi), he should have just eliminated the useless young Obi. Until Coruscant, maybe (after all, I've seen drafts where Qui Gon was only supposed to be introduced in Coruscant, I'll try to find the link).



Continue with the debate folks, hopefully this will draw trolls away from the Snctuary Who knows what other quotes I might bring!

 

Obi-Wan ruined TPM!

 

If you mean him being useless ruined TPM, defnitely!

You're still making my points for me

 

Yeah I am.

I also think Lando didn't get enough screentime in TPM. We should have seen him flying around in the Falcon picking up chicks.

 

Lando in TPM? Must have missed that!

 

Damn. I knew I should have waited until I'd got to the end of Series 6 before getting involved in a conversation about it. Now I'm spoiled and I've only got myself to blame...



Still, if Anya had been able to relate to the other characters at all, then her getting jilted by Xander wouldn't have destroyed her world in the same way, would it? And how do you demonstrate that without showing her with a complete lack of social skills next to the other characters>

 

I know, it's like Billy Dee Williams wasn't even in the film the way they edited his part down and focused on Obi-Wan and Darth Maul.

 

Still, if Anya had been able to relate to the other characters at all, then her getting jilted by Xander wouldn't have destroyed her world in the same way, would it?

Ummm...Willow interacted with others, yet her world still shattered when Tara died (sorry! I'm really sincerely sorry for spoiling you! I know how some fans hate spoilers! I'm really really really sorry! Please, if there's anything I can do to make amends! Really really sorry! ). And it's not just about interactiopn. In one way or another, the members of the 'Scooby gang' serve a function, they get involved in the story. Anya didn't. Just look at my Giles quote there. That's all she does: a few "witty comments" here and there, full stop. I get the feeling Dawn suffered from this too in season 6, right? Just being the brat. Predictable, since the importance of her being 'the Key' is no longer there.

Anyway, sorry for being off topic (and again, sorry for spoiling the season! I haven't seen it myself, BTW, but I'm a spoiler nut! )

Ummm...Go-Mer, I just checked the TPM credits...there's no Lando. You must have watched one of those Phantom Edits.

 

No worries about the spoiler- I shouldn't have dropped into the conversation when I'm 3/4 of the way through the series!!!

Still, the whole point of Anya is that she's a fish out of water as a human, and Xander is her only "tie" to the human world- hence her somewhat destructive reaction to what happens- firstly with her demon friend, and secondly with Spike- compared to Willow, who tries to work constructively to get over things, giving up the magic etc. thanks to the support of her friends.

(I think I'm going to stop talking about this, so I don't spoil anybody reading, and I don't get anymore spoiled myself!)

Anyway, Obi Wan is in a similar situation in TPM- he isn't ready to be out on his own, training his own padawan, but he's thrown in at the deep end at the end of the film, and because he thinks he's good enough, he takes on something he's clearly (to me, anyway) not ready for.