Qui-Gon's meditating during Maul duel

Hi everyone,

Don't know if this has been discussed yet, so I'm sorry I'm repeating another discussion.

After watching ROTS, and learning that it is Qui Gon who teaches Yoda and Obi Wan how to become Force ghosts, is it possible that during his duel with Maul, Qui Gon's medititation relates to what is needed in order to become a Force ghost once killed? I realized how similar it is to the what Obi Wan is doing when Vader kills him in A New Hope.

Thoughts?

Dan

 

Interesting thought. You wonder, if like Obi Wan in ANH, he knew he could not win the duel, and figured what the hell, let me meditate on this. Can I 'survive' as a force ghost and maybe help guide the chosen one from beyond the grave? Yes I can!

I think more likely he was just calming himself and regaining his energy until the force field dropped again. After he got poked, he laid on the ground for a while until Obi dispatched Maul and got over to him. He had lots of time then to figure out the force ghost stuff....

 

"I think more likely he was just calming himself and regaining his energy until the force field dropped again."

Exactly. Qui-gon wasn't meditating, or speaking with the force, or preparing for an inevitable death... he was merely regaining his strength and energy.

 

It's an interesting one. I've wondered in the past whether there was a connection between the meditation aspect and the force ghost thing. In ANH, Obiwan definitely had a moment of contemplation just before he was killed by Vader. Difficult to say for sure, but an interesting notion.

 

The fact that Qui-gon achieved immortality, supposedly the first in history, has to prove that he was had something up his sleeve before he was killed. He was all about the living force and we've never seen another Jedi like him since. Ever.

He knew what he was doing.

 

I think that Qui-Gon knew he wasn't going to win the duel so he was preparing for his death.

His meditation was to help him get ready for his next phase in the Force.

 

But at that point he is unaware of being able to connect with the Force and become Immortal. Otherwise he would have told Obi-Wan.
"Don't worry Chick, I'm just popping out be back in a moment...oh and train Anakin for me"
His words are much more final when he speaks to Obi-Wan. Whatever he discovers about being a Force "Ghost" he does in the after-life.
As Yoda tells Obi-Wan he finds a path back from the neverworld of the Force. If he already knew how to do that he wouldnt have gone there in the first place a-la Yoda and Obi-Wan and lastly and somewhat problematic Anakin..did in the OT

 

That's a good catch. i've always wodered why he did that. I'm guessing it was something like a 'force immortality turn on' type situation. He took a few moments to turn the ghost ability on, just as Obi-Wan seemed to do in ANH, and then went to fight Maul. I think he was acting like he was dying, because he was. He obviously didn't know how this ability was supposed to work, and maybe thought that it hadn't, even though it did.


And it would be impossible for Qui-Gon to learn it after he died, and became one with the force, because he would have already lost his identity.

 

This is the thing: Qui Gon was the first Jedi to achieve immortality. There was too much at stake in his battle with Maul for him to give himself to the Force (i.e. let himself be killed) a la Obi Wan. However, I think that his meditation during his duel with Maul was indeed Qui Gon's preparation for death and immortality -- he was acting out the training he'd obviously been working on in secret. (on the more practical side, those energy divider things were simply a way that Lucas came up with to give Qui Gon a chance to do this; if he did it during the battle with Maul, a la Obi Wan in ANH, and let himself be killed, I think the viewers would've been going, "Um, why the hell did he do that, he was doing fine")

 

I don't think so. Yoda's words are pretty clear: "FOUND his way back from the netherword". If he knew how to do it why'd it take 13 years to teach it to Yoda? I don't buy it.

Plus his expression when Maul guts him is more of "Wow...Didn't expect that" than "Okay...Now bring on phase 2"

 

I love this scene. I don't think he was preparing himself for death. I think he was preparing himself to kick butt, Jedi Master style. You know the drill: "stretch out with your feelings"; "feel the Force flowing through you" etc.

 

Plus his expression when Maul guts him is more of "Wow...Didn't expect that" than "Okay...Now bring on phase 2"


... or possibly "***t. It really does hurt having a lightsabre stuck through you doesn't it."

 

Now that I think about it, I think he knew he was going to die at the hands of Maul. Jedi can have visions of the future, so its possible he knew his time was about over. The fact that he was much more unorthodox compared to the rest of the jedi would explain why he didn't share his secret until only Yoda and Obi Wan were left.

The 'shocked' look on his face, I'd agree with the 'wow, so this is what i've been doing to other beings my entire life. '

Another question should naturally arise from this...so, Qui Gon Jinn was the first to have the ability to 'force ghost'. Well, at the end of RotJ, why isn't he ghostin' it up with his other homies at the Ewok party? Perhaps he wasn't invited?

 

When I first saw TPM, I got the impression he knew he was going to die. But honestly now I don'think so. I think he was just taking the opportuntiy to clam his mind and connect with the force while Maul stalked back in forth in front of him like a caged wildcat. Qui-Gon was big on patience. I think it is a good example of the different fighting styles. When we see Obi-Wan in these scenes, both before and after QG's death, he is waiting rather anxiously to get to Maul, and arguably uses his anger toward Maul when he finally gets to him after QG's defeat. This is one of my favorite scenes in the PT. (right up until Maul's lame death, anyway).

 

Perhaps he wasn't invited?

The half-baked answer from GL was that Qui-Gon wasn't that accomplished and couldn't become a ghost. I say "half-baked" because apparently Liam Neeson broke his leg around the time of Episode 2 and but for that would have been ghosted up. Also it really doesn't make sense that the guy who figures out the whole immortality thing isn't "accomplished enough" to do it.

 

Another point I thought of...if Qui Gon was seriously intent on destroying Maul, he could've backed off after the shields retracted and waiting for Obi Wan. Instead, he rushed ahead, to face Maul 1 on 1, knowing Obi Wan would have to watch. He was probably more in tune with the force and had premonitions of this whole ordeal, therefore he knew what would happen.

I vote yes, he meditated to acquire the strength necessary to eventually become a force ghost, knowing that in the long run, it would help the jedi the most.

 

"if Qui Gon was seriously intent on destroying Maul, he could've backed off after the shields retracted and waiting for Obi Wan."

And Darth Maul would've followed him. To have Qui-gon essentially "run away" from Maul to have Obi-wan back him up takes alot away from his character. Qui-gon was meditating to regain his stregth and WAS NOT preparing himself to become one w/ the force. In addition, at what point exactly thoroughout the duel did it appear as if Qui-gon needed help? Til his death, there was no indication that Qui-gon couldn't defeat Maul.

Qui-gon was confident in his ability to take out Maul and it took an unorthodox manuever from Maul to take Qui-gon down, a move that would've caught even Yoda off guard.

 

so, those opposed to qui gon's meditating as a means to prepare himself to force ghost, do you believe thats what obi wan did before Vader struck him down? meaning, he paused and was calm in order to obtain the ability to force ghost..

 

It's a good thought Pizza Bagel, but I, like others are still stumped as to why Gui didn't disappear like the others and is still able to be contacted with. Probably GL's mistake or something.

 

I've often wondered myself why Qui-Gon did not disappear. Even before AOTC, I figured the reason was that when Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Vader (his armor was empty when it was burned) died and disappeared, they all accepted their death: Obi Wan allowed Vader to kill him, Yoda sat back and accepted the fact that was going to die, and Vader told Luke that "nothing" could keep him from dying. A major theme in all these movies -- moreso the prequels -- is detachment from all material things, including the body, and to a greater extent, life. So I always figured, when Qui-Gon died and DIDN'T disapper, it was because he wasn't expecting it, like all the others we had seen in the OT.

Yet, in ROTS, we're told that Qui-Gon is the one who figures out how to "live" after "death." The only clue I found to this was in TPM: his short, Obi-Wan-esque meditation while separated from Maul.