PT Qui-Gon's Republic Credit Blunder

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Tornado Wrangler, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    So, Qui-Gon had a bunch of Republic Credits with him on Tatooine. He was just going to buy the parts he needed for their ship straight from Watto. When Watto said Republic Credits were no good to him, Qui-Gon attempted to use the force to trick him to accept it as payment. We find out mind tricks don't work on his species.

    Nobody else has the hyperdrive he needs, or so Watto says. Qui-Gon seems to just take Watto's word for it. That's right: Qui-Gon accepts that Watto has the only hyperdrive on the entire planet that will fix their ship, and he just happen to walk into his shop on the first try.

    However, even if Watto was telling the truth, there are other shop owners who could be mind-tricked into accepting the Republic Credits for other valuable goods. Qui-Gon could buy those goods and trade them to Watto, or sell them for local currency that Watto could accept. Or, he could trade the credits with someone who is on their way to Republic space and would need to change their money anyway.

    At least they are consistent about what kinds of species are immune to mind tricks: the ones that are holding people as slaves!
  2. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Yes, Qui-Gon could have asked other shopkeepers. But a nasty sandstorm appeared on the horizon before he could. And the Jedi Knight, along with Padme and Jar-Jar, sought shelter with Anakin and Shmi. Qui-Gon became suspicious about Anakin's connection to the Force and the latter came up with a plan to win those parts from Watto.
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  3. Merkual Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 4
    well watto promised that no one else had a hyperdrive, :p

    but in all seriousness it probably had something to do with the line "republic credits are no good out here" so there was no point in trying elsewhere

    And using the mind trick into tricking honest traders into accepting currency that is basicly useless wouldn't make Qui-Gon a nice character at all, in fact it would make him a pretty big ****.
  4. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    It's apparent that Watto sells all sorts of very specific parts, and the the hyperdrive is certainly an odd part to be carried by a local vendor. Watto is definitely the only one to have it.

    For why Qui-Gon didn't bother with other dealers, DRush76 explains it well; Qui-Gon had time to observe Anakin, and saw a situation that could benefit both of them. Despite the extreme risk, he trusted the Force on the issue.
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  5. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Well this is what Qui-Gon tried to do. Remember he tried to get Watto to accept republic money using the mind trick..
    So Qui-Gon has already shown himself willing to do that once, so why would he have a problem with doing it again?

    Not to mention that the basic idea that there are no means to exchange currency on Tatooine is a bit far fetched. We know that people from all over the outer rim come there to watch the race. Can't they buy anything or exchange their currency to the local currency? We know that many traders and space pilots come here. But if it is impossible to exchange whatever currency you have to the local currency then all the traders and shop keepers are excluding a lot of potential customers, which makes little sense.

    As for time, after leaving Watto, Qui-Gon talks to Obi-Wan and asks if they have any valuables on the ship. So apparently the thought of going to another dealer never entered his head. And remember Watto was one of the SMALLER dealers.

    This is one of several instances, I feel, where the plot becomes contrived. The plot needs something to happen and so the character have to act in a very specific way.
    Had Qui-Gon gone to another dealer then he could have gotten the part without the need for the race and since the plot needs the race to happen, Qui-Gon must not do this.
    And as I mentioned above, the total lack of currency exchange is another contrivance.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
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  6. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    If anyone had the part, but it's established that Watto was the only one who had it. There is no reason for Watto to lie to someone who in the end had nothing of value. Not to mention that once he becomes interested in Anakin, the problem is no longer about just getting the hyperdrive.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 2, 2014
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  7. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    True, Qui-Gon could've considered simply going to a currency exchanging station to convert his Republic Credits to whatever Watto (and the others on Tatooine) would accept, even if Watto were the only one who had the hyperdrive. I'm trying to come up with an explanation that'll show why Qui-Gon didn't do this, but other than "The Force told him to stick with this one", I got nothing.
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    If such thing even exists, so could Watto.
  9. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2
    In answer to the OP, because this is the part of the film where the whole thing begins to come apart at the seams basically.
    Last edited by sharkymcshark, Feb 2, 2014
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Care to expand on that?
  11. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2
    I'll try to keep it succinct because I've gone into this too much elsewhere.

    As you know the film opens with the invasion of Naboo, the subjugation of the population and the usurping of the government. The head of state flees to go and petition for help for her people, who are ostensibly suffering (although this isn't shown anywhere at all apart from one half holo transmission from Sio Bibble).

    They reach Tatooine and the urgency that their situation entails basically just dies. We've already seen earlier in the film that Qui Gon is more than willing to mind trick Boss Nass in order to get transport to Theed, and we see that he attempts to mind trick Watto into taking a currency that would be useless to him, but then we the audience are meant to believe that the fastest way for him to get to Coruscant is to enter into a slightly convoluted bet to win them both the part they need and the freedom of Anakin, over a series of days.

    I get that Anakin has a very strong connection to the force and that could be relevant to the prophecy of the One, but at this point the plight of the people of Naboo (and the entire conflict driving the film) is entirely marginalised and devalued. By the logic that the film itself already established* the fact that Anakin has a very strong connection to the force seems to take precedence over the actual humanitarian mission that the Jedi were on, and their need to get back to Coruscant fast as possible to get help for the population dying by the "thousands" (according to Sio Bibble's transmission).

    *(Not to mention the logic established by other films in the saga - ANH showing that there is a trade on Tatooine for star ship captains)
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  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    How exactly did the urgency "just die"? The urgency still exists.

    The audience is meant to also take into account their present circunstances, Qui-Gon's interest in Anakin and that by making the bet it would not only give them a chance to get the hyperdrive but free Anakin as well.

    They are stalled on the Outer Rim, of course their main objective at that moment is to get a new hyperdrive. That's the only way to reach Coruscant and help Naboo.

    Please, provide proof of such "establishment".

    For those who have the currency. That's not the case here.
  13. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2
    They obtain a bongo by using a mind trick when Boss Nass has no desire to help them. They try to make Watto accept a currency that he's stated he has no use for (and if we assume he's being truthful about that being the only type of that hyperdrive around they you have to accept that he's being truthful about that too).

    We're shown that the jedi don't have issues using the Force in this exact way when they're pursuing the greater good.

    That you've said that "their objective is to get a new hyperdrive" is evidence of this marginalisation and obscuring that I'm talking about - their objective is to get to Coruscant to petition the senate to get help for Naboo.
  14. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    [IMG]

    In order to reach Coruscant (and help the Naboo), they need a new hyperdrive. There was no marginalisation of the main problem. Their whole journey is about that.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 2, 2014
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  15. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    ** Of course the whole problem with the RCs occurred so we can see a podrace, which is cool. It's one of the best scenes in the prequels in my opinion. I'm just pointing out the complexity of the deal that Qui-Gon made was Watto was wildly unnecessary. I still don't really understand it.***

    One problem in establishing the decision making is that we don't know how much the money is worth.

    Also, we don't really know how much Qui-Gon had. It's a pretty simple rule that in negotiations, you don't tell the dealer how much money you really have. The conversation would go a little like this:

    "How much for this sprocket?"
    "How much do you have?"
    "Forty dollars."
    "It must be your lucky day! It's on sale for forty dollars."

    But, knowing how much he has wouldn't help us much. We've never seen Republic credits used for anything, so we have no frame of reference for their value. However, we can do a little bit with the transitive property.

    "No pod is worth 2 slaves." Implies that a pod is worth 1 slave, also due to the fact that Watto accepted the bet, even though he regretted it.

    So, Anakin is worth a pod. Now, how much is a pod worth? Anakin was able to build one from spare parts, so no one part of it must be that expensive. Also, they crash all the time, implying they are somewhat disposable. It makes sense that the prize money from winning the race must be many time more than the cost of a pod. So, pods aren't that expensive, so slaves shouldn't be that expensive either.

    If Qui-Gon found interest in Anakin's force sensitivity, there was another way to free him. Instead of betting on a podrace, just buy him!

    Let's pretend that there's no way for Qui-Gon to exchange his R.C.s, and EVERY PERSON ON THE PLANET that has something he could buy from them is immune to mind-tricks (which Qui-Gon had no moral problem attempting on Watto). Oh, and that on the entire planet, Watto has the only comparable hyperdrive.

    Then SELL THE NUBIAN! Even without a hyperdrive, it would be reasonable to assume its worth many times the amount of a pod, and therefore a slave. Sell the ship, buy an old rust bucket with a working hyperdrive and buy Anakin with the difference.
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  16. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Unless they are. Not every pod is the same, and surely some are more expensive than others. If slaves weren't "that expensive", Watto wouldn't have to struggle on wether to bet one or not.

    All the money he has is worthless on Tatooine. And even if he could buy him, he still would need money for the hyperdrive.

    Why would anyone trade a perfectly fine, cheaper ship for an expensive one with no hyperdrive? Without an hyperdrive, it's useless.
  17. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2



    Obi Wan: 'People are dying in their thousands on Naboo. The junk dealer wants us to enter in a slightly convoluted bet involving a local race in a few days. Should we just commandeer transport the same way we did 25 minutes ago in Otto Gunga?'

    Qui Gon: 'No let's take part in this slightly convoluted bet over the course of a few days because we might free a slave who is suddenly more important than whatever else it was we were doing that got us here'

    OW: 'Naboo. People dying. Thousands.'

    QG: 'Oh right I remember now... but we do need this specific hyperdrive part!'

    OW: '25 minutes ago you waved your hand and made Boss Nass give us a submarine that I'm fairly sure we're never going to give back to him. Can't we do that again? Ostensibly we're in kind of a rush - you know, the whole Naboo was invaded by a robot army thing?'

    QG: 'But the boy! He's extremely force sensitive'

    OW: 'Yes, you've mentioned that. We got a phonecall from that guy with the terrible facial hair, he said things were pretty terrible. I feel like we should probably hurry'

    QG: 'But then how will we shoe horn in this podrace sequence?'

    OW: 'Fair point, what are a few more thousand Naboo lives anyway? Let's spend a few days just sort of hanging out with him helping him fix up his racer'



    [IMG]
    Last edited by sharkymcshark, Feb 2, 2014
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  18. Darthmaul208 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2013
    star 3
    He could have gone to the ANH cantina and found a pilot and ship there mirroring ANH. He could have gone to Jabba's Place who would have to deal with him or a bounty hunter from there. the Jedi council could force the huts to make Watto give him the parts or get a bounty hunter to steal it. Problem solved.
  19. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Did they get a transport because of the mind trick? Boss Nass was still able to "set them up" by adivising them to journey through the core. Besides getting everyone from the ship wouldn't draw any unwanted attention whatsoever, right? And let's ignore the sandstorm and Anakin's introduction as well, because none of that affected their plans...

    Not to mention, they left the next day after they landed, therefore I don't see what the big deal is.
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    This comment alone is erroneous. It was Anakin who came up with the idea of a bet, not Qui-Gon. The latter extended the bet by adding Anakin's freedom to it. And you expect all of the travelers aboard the Queen's ship to make their way to Mos Espa in order to commandeer another transport at a spaceport unfamiliar to them?



    Why on earth would the Hutts force Watto to give Qui-Gon the parts he needs? Why would they even bother themselves over a minor transaction between Watto and Qui-Gon that has nothing to do with gambling on the races? And what on earth makes you think that the Jedi Council could force Jabba the Hutt to intervene? And Jabba was at Mos Espa for the races, not at his palace.
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 2, 2014
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  21. Darthmaul208 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2013
    star 3
    @DRush76 because the Jedi can force him to. they have the power to for a slight price of course. jabba isn't over friendly but he understands money. if he's at Mos Espa even better.
  22. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    They aren't that expensive unless they are? Can't argue with that logic. My point was that pods and slaves are in the same ballpark. AND, that ballpark is much smaller than a hyperdrive for a star cruiser, thus star cruisers themselves. If Anakin's pod was worth as much as a the hyperdrive, Qui-Gon just could have traded it for the hyperdrive and found some other way to free him besides risking his life in a podrace.
    The money he has is worthless to Watto, not to every single person on the planet of Tatooine. His "blunder" was not using the mind-trick to get someone else to accept RCs as payment or straight-up exchange for local currency. He acts as if Watto is the only person on the planet he can work with.

    Useless, but not worthless!!! After they fix the hyperdrive, they could sell it and turn a profit. This happens in real life! (except cars don't have hyperdrives)

    If someone offered to straight-up trade a 2013 Ferrari that needed engine work for your '88 Honda Civic, I'd think you'd consider it.



    Look at it his way: how stupid would Qui-Gon seem if Anakin had lost the race? They'd have no ship, Anakin would still be a slave, and they would have just wasted a couple days for nothing. He'd probably then just do what makes sense and use the RCs (w/mindtrick) to get a ride out of there, or at least to a non-Trade Federation planet in the Republic.
  23. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1

    Qui-Gon waved his had and said, "We could use a transport." And everyone was surprised when he did. I'd say that's a mind trick.

    When they went to Anakin's house, that did change things, yes. However, even after learning about Anakin's force sensitivity, Qui-Gon still said he didn't come there to free slaves. His biggest priority was still getting to Coruscant. The whole plan for the podrace was so Anakin could with them the money to get the parts they needed, not to free him. It seemed like a last-second decision to bet Watto for Anakain. Which, by the way, it was technically Watto's pod (since Anakin built it). How messed up is that? Qui-Gon bet Watto's own pod to get Watto's slave.

    I think your time is a bit off. I'd have to go back and rewatch it to be sure, but I thought they spent 2 nights.
  24. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    This is one of those other moments in the PT where...it "works" but it was extremely convoluted and a lot of it was unnecessary. The PT is chock full of "...yeah I guess it works..." with this sense of unenthusiasm (from my point of view).

    I already hate the notion that some alien races are immune to mind tricks (and before anyone brings up Jabba - he was immune for having a STRONG mind - not being a Hutt). What was up with the PT diluting the Force? Sheesh.

    I can stomach that Republic credits are pointless. I can stomach that Qui-Gon sense importance in Anakin and wanted to see this through. I can stomach Obi-Wan following Qui-Gon's lead. But what I cannot abide is Padme giving two "poodoos" about Jedi prophecies. Her people were supposedly dying and her world suffering from this blockade. Even as a kid, I thought "wait...there is nothing on that ship of value?" I remember the scene of Obi-Wan saying that there was some stuff but nothing that could be used for bartering. I can understand that since they left in a hurry that Padme or her servants didn't load up the ship with goods for trade. They did, after all, planned to go straight to Coruscant.

    But someone else already pointed out the obvious - why not trade the ship for something else? Even if it had a damaged hyperdrive - someone else (that wasn't in a rush) could have easily procured a hyperdrive and they'd have an advanced sleek Naboo cruiser. Plus, if the ship is worthless without a hyperdrive - what about all the other parts? Surely the parts would be of some value? Enough to at least arrange transport (ala Han Solo in ANH).

    Although...Qui-Gon probably would not have left without Anakin. So that would have made things awkward I suppose. I don't know.
  25. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    What I mean is that pods can be expensive. Being expendable doesn't make it cheap. Just like F1 cars.

    I'm not arguing that a pod is as valuable as an hyperdrive. But as you said yourself, Qui-Gon would still need to find a way for Anakin's freedom.

    "Republic credits are no good out here."

    By "out here", I assume he means Tatooine, or even the Outer Rim, where the Republic has no relevance or power.

    But the hyperdrive is not fixable, they would still need to waste more money to buy one.

    If you were in a remote place, I'm sure people would value more an working vehicle than an expensive one that doesn't work.

    But he didn't. That's why the concept of destiny is part of the tale.

    "He was meant to help you." - Shmi Skywalker

    He did try a mind trick on Boss Nass, but Nass still tried to set them up, thus Jar Jar's warning.

    Indeed, but he was beginning to ponder Anakin's connection to the prophecy.

    Slavery is "messed up" to begin with. And Watto didn't know about the pod, therefore he couldn't claim it.

    I believe it was one night.

    They land on Tatooine, go to Watto's shop, Anakin saves Jar Jar, sandstorm happens, Anakin offers them shelter and they have lunch at his home where he even mentions the podrace is the next day. The only night they spent there was the same when Darth Maul arrives.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 2, 2014
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