PT Qui-Gon's Republic Credit Blunder

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Tornado Wrangler, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1

    Padme did complain about trusting in Anakin, yes. But that wasn't my initial point. The story didn't provide a valid reason (in my opinion) for Qui-Gon not to use the mind-trick on another dealer to accept the worthless republic credits. And that's ok! It's not something that's going to get noticed upon first viewing because you're just following along and accept whatever happens. That's what makes movies fun to watch. BUT, if we just watched Star Wars just for fun, we wouldn't be on a message board debating things! After the first 50 times you see it, you start to analyze the characters' decisions as if they were real people. That's all we're doing here.

    I don't think anyone has fully disagreed that within the fiction for the story there was no reason that Qui-Gon couldn't have solved their problem by buying goods from another mind-trickiable dealer and trading them to Watto. We've discussed, at length, reasons why he didn't. The reason I'm going to have to settle on is that he just didn't think about it. And that's the last thing I'll say about it!

    I want to reiterate that I think pretty much every movie has moments like this. It doesn't necessarliy hurt the movie. I posted almost a year ago that TPM was my favorite prequel. Looking for little plot holes is fun! It's kinda like an easter egg hunt. For just a moment, you get to feel like you figured something out that the writer didn't think to cover in the movie. A lot of times, solutions to plot holes like this were written in the script, but then get cut out of the final movie. There are several of those in TPM.
    Last edited by Tornado Wrangler, Feb 4, 2014
  2. Garra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2014
    star 1
    I agree aswell.
  3. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    He never got the chance. After leaving Watto's shop, a sandstorm hit Mos Espa. Qui-Gon, Padme and Jar-Jar sought refuge with the Skywalkers. During their supper with Anakin and Shmi, Qui-Gon began to suspect that Anakin might be strong with the Force. Also during supper, Anakin brought up a plan to exploit Watto's penchant for gambling to win parts. And when Qui-Gon realized how strong Anakin was with the Force, he not only went along with the plan, he made Anakin part of the bet.
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 4, 2014
  4. MrCody Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2013
    star 1
    Republic credits are no good out here! OUT HERE! So that means no one else would accept it so why would he try other places. LOL
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  5. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    Not at all. Your take on it is highly speculative.
    We don't know how things would have turned out if Anakin had not destroyed the DCS.

    The Gungans were already defeated, so Gunray would have known time is on his side. He would just have to withstand until the Droid Army would return to Theed and reconquer the Palace. Do you think Padmé and the Naboo would have killed Gunray? I don't know and even if, they were still powerless against the TF in general as long the Droid Army was not deactivated.

    So Anakin's actions were certainly an important factor. Whether he "saved the day" or not is hypothetical.
    Last edited by Samnz, Feb 5, 2014
  6. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Because he could use the Jedi mind trick and make the trader "accept" his money, like he tried to do with Watto.
    Unless you want to assume that everyone on Tatooine is immune to the mind trick, this was a simple option for Qui-Gon.
    One that he apparently never thought off.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  7. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    He DID have the chance. After leaving Watto, Qui-Gon stops and contacts Obi-Wan and they discuss what they have to trade with. But they don't have enough for what he needs. So Qui-Gon says "I am sure another opportunity will present itself."
    This right here shows that Qui-Gon, for some reason, didn't think about the possibility to simply go to another trader or exchange his money.

    Even after they have met Anakin, Qui-Gon is debating what he should do and again the option of going to another trader doesn't enter his mind. If he wants to free Anakin, nothing stops him from doing a bet with Watto for Anakin's freedom and get the part by trade. If Anakin wins, Qui-Gon can free him, if he looses, then Qui-Gon can still carry out the primary mission, get to Coruscant.
    Padme doesn't approve but for some reason, she doesn't think of doing the mind trick on another trader either.

    As I said, it is a bit of plot contrivance. What might have worked better is that Sebulba has the part and he won't sell or trade it.
    But he is willing to race for it. So Anakin enters the race to get the part and Qui-Gon can make his bet with Watto for Anakins freedom.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor.
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    How do you know that? All we know is that he tried to make a fair trade first, if possible. After that, Anakin presented his plan and Qui-Gon simply went with it.
  9. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    We're talking about Nute Gunray, described as a coward and seen to be - shown to be - a coward. His life is directly endangered. I have no reason to believe that Gunray will 'sweat it out' at the risk of his own life being ended, for some greater good for the TF (whatever that actually might be...). That would be a huge departure from the behaviour we are shown by his character throughout.
  10. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Agree with the above except to say there is an even simpler transaction staring everybody in the face. When Qui-Gon speaks to Obi-Wan and asks what they have of value...why does Obi_wan not think to say "..oh, and a Nubian class requiring a hyperdrive generator". Why didn't Qui-Gon reckon on that? Watto has the part, so the Nubian class starship would be worth quite a bit to him, enough - surely - to pay either for another, less luxurious craft or to broker a flight to Coruscant.
    Last edited by only one kenobi, Feb 5, 2014
  11. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Because, after he tried to trade with Watto, he contacted Obi-Wan and asked what they had onboard that could be used for barter. When Obi-Wan told that they didn't have enough for what was needed, Qui-Gon basically threw his hands in the air and said "Oh well, I am out of ideas."
    So he was looking for other options but somehow didn't think of just "buying" from another trader.
    THEN Anakin brought them to his home and then they started talking about bets and pod races and all that. And during that time, Qui-Gon never thought about doing this. As I said, he could still bet with Watto on the race if he wanted Anakin. If he got the part through barter then the consequences of Anakin loosing are nowhere near as bad.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    That's your subjective interpretation. All he said is "I'm sure another solution will present itself".

    You can't claim that.

    Because Anakin presented his own solution and Qui-Gon had faith in him. You could argue why, like Padmé did, but that's beside the point.
  13. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3

    Exactly, "present itself". So it seems Qui-Gon won't try and think of an alternative, he will just wait for something to land in his lap. Had he said "I will try and think of an alternative." then that would be different.


    This option isn't exactly a difficult concept and he had time to think about alternatives and even call up Obi-Wan and talk to him about bartering what they had onboard. For that matter, why didn't Obi-Wan suggest this? Qui-Gon has show that he willing to "make" traders accept republic credits, he tried it with Watto. That didn't work because Watto is Force immune. So he is open to the possibility. Other traders won't be immune so the solution is pretty simple, go to another trader and get something to barter with.


    [/QUOTE]

    No it is not beside the point. Qui-Gon had time to think about alternatives before the sandstorm and again when in Anakin's house. At no point did this alternative seem to occur to him and as I said, it isn't exactly hard. So the conclusion seems to be that Qui-Gon just didn't think of it.
    He can have faith in Anakin but what is wrong with taking precautions? The race can still happen but with less at stake for Qui-Gon. Perhaps not very cinematic but as I suggested, have Sebulba be the one with the part. Then the bet and all the rest become a little less contrived.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  14. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Qui-Gon was such a big fan of trusting in the Force etc etc, I think that in a way he did 'just wait for something to land in his lap' - and it did! To someone like QG, the meeting with Anakin must have been like a huge neon sign saying 'Look here! Focus on this!' Thinking things out seems to have been more Obi-Wan's style than Qui-Gon's.
    Revan_AnakinSolo likes this.
  15. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Because a sandstorm was about to hit Mos Espa.
  16. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I never interpreted that comment as to be taken 100% literally and if it was meant to be taken literally, then it makes zero sense. Presumably Republic Credits are the primary source of currency in the galaxy. I can understand that some stores on the Outer Rim might not want the hassle, but in a spaceport like Mos Espa with criminal organizations and spacers and smugglers, etc, coming and going all the time, Republic Credits would be of value to some of those people.

    I agree that the whole affair on Tatooine is a little unnecessarily complicated, but not as bad as some are making it out to be. Even after the sandstorm, Qui-Gon wanted to stick around another day or so which makes sense considering he believes he has just discovered a boy who has been prophesized about since ancient times.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Qui-gon accepted what Watto said about being the only one because A) he could sense that Watto was telling the truth and B) the Nubian class ship is from the Republic and the odds of said ship's hyperdrive parts being available on Tatooine is quite large. Watto had lucked out on obtaining said parts which is why he knew instantly that he had it in his inventory. As to a currency exchange, there probably wasn't one available at the time. Most people who were planning to go to Tatooine did so prior to going out there. Qui-gon went with the plan to use Anakin because he trusted his instincts which said this was the right thing to do.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  18. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Given the seemingly ad-hoc and criminal nature of 'governance' on Tatooine what currency would they use? Who is in charge of financial affairs? It seems to me unlikely there is any kind of structured (and therefore stable) currency that would be available on a non-Republic planet of such a nature. In circumstances such as those one finds (in the real world) that stable currencies are desired within 'black markets' - especially where much that would be desired would have to be purchased from Republic planets. (the US Dollar was a de facto currency in much of Eastern Europe during Communist rule)
  19. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    In the movie, when Jar Jar tries to snatch that food off a stick, the vendor said it costs "seven wupiupi".

    A wupiupi is a Hutt currency, obviously of use on Tatooine and in the Outer Rim.
    One wupiupi is apparently equal to five-eighths of a Galactic Standard Credit, aka Republic credit.

    Just some info.
  20. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I was actually thinking the same thing about hte black markets and how the U.S. Dollar is valuable all over the world. There may not be anything "structured" but it is still pretty easy to believe that they would be able to find someone for whom Republic Credits are useful. They might have to trade at a very poor exchange rate, but certainly they'd be able to find some way.
  21. WAC-47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    He read the script so he knew Anakin would win the pod race instead of sending a nine year old boy to smash into a rock at 5,000 MPH while sitting next to his mom.
  22. WAC-47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    He also saw the Original Trilogy so he knew the boy would survive with plot armor, too
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Going into the EU, Republic Credits were deemed worthless in the Outer Rim. Hence the use of other forms of currency. By the time of the OT, Imperial Credits were accepted.
  24. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    I imagine hyperdrives are quite expensive, especially rare hyperdrives which the dealer knows his buyer is desperate for. Qui-Gon would probably have to travel around Mos Espa, either mind-tricking a bunch of dealers or clearing out a large portion of a single one's inventory, just to to buy enough parts to add up to the value of a J-type 327 Nubian hyperdrive. The first option would take a while, and it would be very likely to attract a lot of attention once the first few shop owners think about things for a bit after Jinn leaves, realize they've been ripped off by a Jedi, and contact the Hutts, who would then likely nab Qui-Gon as he's in the process of making trades and then kidnap the Queen for ransom. As for the latter option, I think Qui-Gon would be unlikely to find a shop owner with a weak enough mind to let a stranger trade them a whole bunch of worthless currency for a significant portion of their livelihood. I doubt Qui-Gon would be down with that morally, either. One imagines the Republic, as a matter of policy, wouldn't compensate a foreigner on a Hutt-controlled world who lost money as a result of a Jedi, probably contrary to official protocol, violating their mind and stealing from them in the course of an unauthorized mission (Valorum sent them secretly, without the Senate's approval). And I don't think it was the same with Watto, because he was a slave-owner who seemed to be doing quite well for himself even if his was one of the "smaller" shops. He wouldn't have been ruined, but another shop-owner might have been.

    Like I said, the hyperdrive is probably way more expensive than the rest of the ship, and any starship with a hyperdrive would then be more expensive than the money they'd get for trading in the hyperdrive-less Naboo starship.

    e:

    Tatooine isn't really as rinky-dink and wild as they'd like you to think it is, though. It's ruled by the Hutts, who are a pretty big deal. I'd guess the Hutt's economic empire is large enough and stable enough that they can afford to maintain their own currency, and any trade that goes on between the Hutt planets and the greater galaxy must happen at a higher level than the shops Qui-Gon and company were looking at, so that those shop owners only accept local, Hutt-endorsed currency so as to avoid the cost and hassle of exchange.

    And there might very well be currency exchange services on Tatooine. But those would be run and probably monitored by Hutt officials, and Qui-Gon wouldn't want to attract attention by exchanging large sums of hard Republic currency in a place where Republic credits are rare. He'd run a great risk of raising some red flags somewhere.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Feb 20, 2014
    Iron_lord likes this.
  25. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    Why didn't Qui-Gon Just use his Lightsaber to kill watto and take the hyperdrive himself?
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