Full Series Qui gon's voice in episode 11

I´ve just finished watching episode 11 "voices", from the Clone Wars season 6. There's something that does not fit with the movies. In the episode, Yoda hears Qui Gon speaking to him and he is startled by this. But I see no reason for Yoda's surprise, since he had already heard him in the movie " Attack of the clones",when Anakin's killing the Tusken Raiders. Besides, in Episode III, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that Qui gon comunicates with him. And for those who didn't watch the Clone Wars series (which is not mandatory), the only evidence of these communications between Yoda and Qui gon,is the Tusken Killing scene. So it is obvious that yoda communicated with (or heared) Qui-Gon,at least once, way before episode 11. Is it just me or there's a big discrepancy here?
Cheers

 

Even bigger "wow" from that scene is that Qui-Gon's spirit is clearly physically interacting with the profane world.

Which, you know, is kinda weird after Ben Kenobi tells Luke "I cannot interfere."

So I guess maybe Obi-Wan was only prevented from helping, from a certain point-o-view, huh?

 

Pretty much or he was like I am going to not help Luke today.

 

Well, Qui-Gon's had 12 years to learn the ropes, whereas Obi-Wan had only been dead for three. That, and Qui-Gon was much more focused on following the Living Force.

 

We may not have been meant to take that audio quip in Ep II literally.

 

Obi-Wan can actually be seen in ROTJ interacting with the vines of Dagobah and sitting next to Luke after Yoda's death. This sort of thing has been a major plothole/ plothole that hasn't been covered up by subsequent Star Wars canon for a long time.


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Or maybe a Sith can vanquish a force ghost. That would explain Obi-Wan's statement perfectly.

 

Hey guys, the ghost talk is interesting. But let's focus on the topic of the post!! Yoda freaking out for nothing! Maybe he has Alzheimer and doesn't remember he heard qui gon once before.

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May be, but I don't see another way to interpret it. And as I said, in Episode III Yoda tells Obi-Wan he spoke to Qui Gon. He is almost certainly referring to that scene in Episode II (and other encounters). Also, we know that George Lucas meant Liam Neeson to be in that scene(not only his voice) but for some reason he couldn't be. I think they wanted to make clear or give a hint that Qui Gon could talk to Yoda.

 

If the force is a living enity or spirt, then it stands to reason so is the darkside or this a two face entity/spirit which more or less depends more on the force user to decide which to use while the Jedi mostly supposedly suppress all darkside traits or things to lead to the darkside. Yoda gets accused of being under the influence of the darkside/Sith.


Yoda did hear Jinn in AOTC. Bigger plot hole was how Vader/Anakin learns of this ability in ROTS, and he comes back younger or older depending on which version you choose.

If this was something both he and Sidious learned together, then it stands to reason that Sidious' spirit has survived in much the same manner. If Darth Bane's ghost was real, and not a force Priestess manifested illusion, evidence against the illusion is that there is that a Sith reliquary and burial ground lying underneath the Jedi Temple whose dark force has been slowly but surely corrupting the Jedi for the past 1000 years and weakening their connection the Force(goodside/lightside).

Heck even in the PT movies, Lucas had Palpatine's office decorated with all sorts of Sith paraphernalia right out in the open, statues, murals, urns ect. The Jedi were just as oblivious to it.

Anakin also heard Jinn speaking in the Yoda arc very briefly in the garden era outside while none of the other powerful Jedi even together with all that combined Force could not detect Jinn. Even if the Dark Side was preventing this, Jinn did appear strong enough to enter the Jedi temple more once and even able to interact with the physical world and raise things including Yoda. Whether or not Jinn had attempted to contact Anakin or Anakin was set above all the other Jedi cause he was the "Chosen one". Neither Anakin nor Luke doesnt appear to "awake the force" even after supposedly bringing balance which there was so much talk of ever since TPM was released in 1999 - and Lucas' obsession with the two Skywalkers which at the time were very personal characters to him and he made them the focal point. Or maybe the Force altogether flatlined since ROTJ and Luke was left powerless,lol.

Talzin was basically immortal and able to survive in the spirit realm with the ability through Force vampirism able to resuscitate her physical body.

 

Now, that's an interesting possibility I hadn't considered before.

Emotionally, the idea hits me a bit like a gut-punch. I like to think that once realized, there is some semblance of finality in the form of a Force spirit. Your suggestion threatens that peace.

But isn't it just like a writer to look at things and ask "How can we shake this up? What are our options, here?"

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Oh, and incidentally guys and gals, I was only half-joking about Ben.

Even as a little child, I always interpreted Kenobi's words to Luke as more "I will not interfere." That this is the time for Luke to make his own choices, to test himself and hopefully find himself up to the challenge.

That from a spiritual, universal view, it would be inappropriate for Obi-Wan to enforce his will on Luke, if Luke chose to face Vader.

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Now, Lestatfol, there's actually been an answer to your original question. I don't remember if it was Filoni, or maybe even Lucas, himself, but it mostly came down to Yoda was unsure of what he had really heard in Episode II.

Canonically speaking, there had apparently been no recorded instance of the spirit of a departed Jedi contacting anyone from the great beyond. Yoda largely dismissed Jinn's original "Anakin. Anakin! Nooooo!" as something -- anything -- other than what it actually turned out to be.

 

Trebor Sabreon. Do you remember where did you hear them say that? was it an interview? a convention? Thanks

 

Let me see what I can dig up.

 

Okay, so a quick search brings up this:

"We cut to Yoda, who is meditating, who hears this (the Tusken slaughter) off-screen, and we do hear a voice in there, and that voice is the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn. So we very subtly establish that in this rather intense emotional connection, where Yoda is feeling the pain and suffering of Anakin and the Tusken Raiders, he's also making a connection, unwittingly, with Qui-Gon Jinn. Up to this point (in the saga), we haven't established that you can make a connection with the departed in this world, and that will become a factor in Episode III. Lots of issues sort of come out of that - but this is the very beginning of it. Yoda making a connection with Qui-Gon Jinn in the middle of Anakin's pain."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

But it only kind of 'half-way' answers the question. It establishes that, prior to AOTC, it was unheard of to connect with the dead. And that Yoda "unwittingly" did so with Qui-Gon.

But I feel as though this is only part of the answer that I am recalling having heard. I still think there was something more recent -- again, either by George, or maybe more likely, Filoni -- that addressed @Lestatfol's question.

Anyway, if I can did it up, Lestat, I'll let you know. Cool?

 

Interesting stuff. I was always under the impression that Yoda might have recognized the voice, but dismissed it as something the Force itself did during his meditation, and not actually Qui-Gon's. He doesn't give any hint about what he just heard, except that Anakin is in pain. If he did hear it and knew it was Qui-Gon, this particular Clone Wars episode should have had him say something to Qui-Gon about it.

"Heard you before, I did. A little while back while meditating..."

But then of course, Qui-Gon would have had to reveal why (Anakin slaughtering Tuskens) and that would have opened up a whole new can of Kouhuns. That wouldn't have worked well with the story, because Yoda would have definitely confronted Anakin about it, and who knows what would have happened after that.

Trebor Sabreon ~ How was Qui-Gon physically interacting? Wasn't he just an orb floating around, instructing Yoda on where to go? Or were you referring to his yelling of "No!" to Anakin during AOTC?

 

This may need to be moved to the Clone Wars thread....

 

In-between.

When Qui-Gon first reached-out to Yoda in TCW, something blew out the candles and lifted Yoda up.

I took it all as physical acts by Jinn.

 

Filoni probably simply forgot Jinn's voice through Force to Yoda was in AOTC.

 

Trebor Sabreon

Ah yes. The candles getting blown out and Yoda getting lifted. Surprised I forgot about that, my bad. Qui-Gon must have done that to help convince Yoda he was really there, instead of just hearing his voice. The mystery is how was he able to do that...

As far as Ben's comment in TESB, "If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere." I've always considered it to be because he was a ghost. After TPM came out, I sometimes wondered if the reasoning was to be along the lines of the same Jedi "codes" as when Qui-Gon in TPM says to Obi-Wan when Padme tries to convince the Gungans to help her in battle: "The Gungans will not be easily swayed, and we cannot use our power to help her."

Perhaps there is no similarity, considering the latter is probably Qui-Gon stating that they cannot use a Jedi mind trick to get the Gungans to go to war, because it would be wrong and against the Jedi way. Maybe Ben in TESB is just saying he simply cannot help because he is a ghost, which is what I've always thought growing up watching the films. But if Qui-Gon was able to lift Yoda as a ghost, Ben should have been able to help in some way. Maybe it is possible that Ben couldn't physically interfere in something of that much Galactic importance. I'm just not sure of the answer here, maybe there isn't one.

So apparently this post here is pointless, since I resolved nothing.

 

Indeed.

I think that's a wonderful mirror. Well done!

That's how I feel, as well, and why it raised my eyebrows when I first saw the scene. If Qui-Gon could interact, I suppose Ben could have, as well. I read it as there must have been another reason he chose not to.

Nah, we've got to work these things out, somehow. This is how we get there.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't feel like a discrepancy, here? Yoda hears his voice in AOTC, shrugs it off and forgets about it. What is the problem here?