Quote from GL about force identity

"One of the things that will never get explaned is how Ben was able to retain his identity, b/c it happened somewhere b/ the 3rd and 4th movies. i set up that this is a disciplne that he learned from Yoda. Yoda told him how to do that. We don't ever get to see how he does it, but the idea of retaining your identity after you've passed on is something that Ben LEARNED AS A JEDI."

My question is isn't Ben still a Jedi in ANH? Did he get thrown out in 3 and have to revert back to his given name of Ben instead of staying Obi Wan?

 

Hmmm, I would interpret that a little differently. Maybe it just means it's only Jedi who are able to retain their identities after death.

I agree that Obi-Wan was still a Jedi in ANH. I think the reason he adopts an alias is because he thinks his name might be recognized as a Jedi name. Or, maybe he'll become well-enough known in the Clone Wars that he'll have to hide his reputation when he becomes a hermit.

 

Ben is still a Jedi at the time of ANH. He just went into hiding like Yoda, Echuu Shen-Jonn, Master Ikrit (hibernation), along with several others. I guess they felt that they had to lure the Emperor into a false sense of security while some secretly began training Jedi to combat the Emperor, with the most famous being Luke Skywalker. Dev Sibwarra was being trained by his mother who was a Jedi Padawan before she was killed.

Anyways, the reason for his name change would be for him to have some kind of security. Even though he was living on a remote and isolated world, should he of used his name of Obi-Wan, it could have compromised his position as guardian of Luke and end their best chance of defeating the Empire.

 

"Anyways, the reason for his name change would be for him to have some kind of security. Even though he was living on a remote and isolated world, should he of used his name of Obi-Wan, it could have compromised his position as guardian of Luke and end their best chance of defeating the Empire."

And all this secrecy and subterfuge is completely defeated when he lets Luke keep the name "Skywalker"!

 

You have a point there, I don't see why the allowed Luke to retain the last name of Skywalker. Lars would have been a better last name.

 

I just read your .sig, E_V.

(Ooops, I mean "R_D" )

 

Skywalker and Kenobi are regular names just like Johnson or Willimas or Martinez. Perhaps millions have that same last name in the Star Wars universe. Just because we have never heard them doesn't mean it isn't so.

 

Yeah, Luke kept his name yet Leia took Organa. He should have been "Luke Lars"

 

I don't believe Skywalker and Kenobi are common names in the GFFA. Perhaps Kenobi, but I'm not so sure about Skywalker.

MB: [Kenobi] Good job [/Kenobi]

 

I think this quote might have some relevance too, once Episode III is out:

"We also get into this thing of what are midi-chlorians, how they work which advances a little bit of the story of the Force, and how does the Force work, how we come to know the Force which is part of Anakin?s training in learning to become a Jedi. And take the idea of the Force one step further. The mid-chlorians are kind of a side issue. Not in a sort of spiritual, metaphysical part of the Force, but the more practical, biological, physical part of the Force, or how we come to know the Force, which has to do really with the genetics of why some people have more in tune to the Force than others."
--George Lucas

 

I must admit I am grateful that KJA created the Force detector tool in Jedi Search which really helps explain how Jedi can determine the level of midicholorians a person has.

Though what does midichlorians have to do with vanishing?

 

It's supposed to be explained in Ep. 3

My guess is it has something to do with Anakin's vow "I will learn to stop people from dying"

Maybe he's the one who first realizes how to do it

 

I think being in tune with midiclorians and the "living Force" has a lot to do with keeping your identity through the Force.

 

I don't know, it seemed to me that Vader was surprised when Kenobi vanished right in front of his eyes.

I quote the novel ANH "There was a brief flash as Kenobi's cloak fluttered to the deck in two neat sections.

But Ben Kenobi was not in it. Wary of some tricks, Vader poked at the empty cloak sections iwth the saber. There was no sign of the old man. He had vanished as though he had never existed.

The guards slowed their approach and joined Vader in examining th eplace where Kenobi had stood seconds before. Several of them muttered, and even the awesome presence of the Sith Lord couldn't keep a few of them from feeling a little afraid".


[Edit]

I suppose that is possible. I guess the only way to know is to wait for EP3.

 

I think Anakin is the first one to figure out how to do it but doesn't know that he's figured it out. Instead, I think Yoda and Obi-Wan realize that Anakin's figured it out and exactly how it happens.

 

Interesting. But I don't believe Skywalker and Kenobi are common either

I know Antilles is common.

 

Maybe they're not as common as "Jones" or "Smith" is for us, but maybe they're as common as say "Vanderbilt" or "Kennedy" is.

It's just a thought; ultimately, it's not a concern of mine.

 

I think Anakin is the first one to figure out how to do it but doesn't know that he's figured it out. Instead, I think Yoda and Obi-Wan realize that Anakin's figured it out and exactly how it happens.

And that ties back into the theory that the reason Obi-Wan and Yoda are allowed to survive the purge, and then retain their identities after death, is they're mooching off the Chosen One. It doesn't make sense to me that they're being kept alive by someone they want to kill, though.

 

Obi Wan is NOT a Jedi in ANH. He says so himself.

"I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father."

As for the whole disappearing thing; my theory is that it's to do with the difference between Jedi and Sith philosophy.

i set up that this is a disciplne that he learned from Yoda. Yoda told him how to do that.

Bear in mind the Qui Gon thing in AOTC, where Yoda hears his voice...

We don't ever get to see how he does it, but the idea of retaining your identity after you've passed on is something that Ben LEARNED AS A JEDI."

OK- the difference between the Jedi and the Sith is that the Jedi use the Force to serve the Force itself. The Sith try to harness the Force for themselves. But that is the essence of the Dark Side, which corrupts the individual and, although giving them access to more power, will be their undoing (according to Lucas on the AOTC commentary.)

But the Jedi see the Force as their ally. They know that what they are serving is bigger than just a power source or the tricks it lets them do. They embrace it as a whole (hence there being no such thing as "the light side" in the films.) What Obi Wan does in ANH is, instead of using the Force to make him stronger, faster, hold back death etc. he gives himself to the Force and becomes one with it.

Now, we know what Anakin thinks of death (he's against it.) He wants to use the Force to make himself stronger, to hold back death. There's no way Darth Vader could conceive of giving up his life being something to make him more powerful- he wants the power for himself, and giving up "himself" is the opposite of his idea of gaining power. It's all "take, take take.

But what Obi Wan does is give up everything in order to become one with the Force- not to harness its power but to become it's power. Because he's not afraid of death, he faces it calmly, and lives forever in the Force.

Hence; "more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

 

I think thats comes from moer a case of the fact that The Order has been destroyed and he no longer has an official role/job. Like being made redundant.

 

And all this secrecy and subterfuge is completely defeated when he lets Luke keep the name "Skywalker"!

It wouldn't surprise me to learn in Episode III that Padme requests that Luke be allowed to keep his name for the following reason:

Padme knows that Luke will eventually confront his father. It maybe her hope that if Vader can see his son, who carries his name, standing before him, it may stir something in Vader.

This is, in fact, what happens, but we'll have to wait and see what actually happens in 2005.

 

"Obi-Wan was NOT a Jedi in ANH. He says so himself.
I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father."
hmmm...this could also mean that he gets promoted to Jedi master. Wouldn't this also inquire that Ani will become a Knight before becoming a Sith? Not to get off subject or anything.

 

>>>I think thats comes from moer a case of the fact that The Order has been destroyed and he no longer has an official role/job. Like being made redundant.

Could be, although Yoda makes no such implications in ESB- if anything, he contradicts it;

"When gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be."


>>>hmmm...this could also mean that he gets promoted to Jedi master.

Also possible, I guess, but it's hard to reconcile that idea with the 1977 film...