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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate "Race" Relations (was "U.S. Society and Black Men")

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jedi Merkurian , Aug 11, 2014.

  1. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Who cares if he was armed (if that's even true)? That 2nd amendment that you love so much gives him that right. If somebody is reaching, shoot them in the leg (if he/she needs to be shot at all). There's no reason for killing.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    And North Carolina is an open carry state.

    He had every right to have a gun on his person, if he indeed did.

    The Mecklenburg County Public Defender explained this to several of us who have access to local media.
     
    Jedi Merkurian , harpua and Juliet316 like this.
  3. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Yeah, it's not like they're apprehending the T1000. He's not getting up or running away with a leg wound.
     
  4. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Again, let me be clear: If he didn't have a gun in his hand and if he wasn't reaching for it, there was no excuse for shooting him. And I don't mean to imply that there was should that be the case.

    The family is saying he didn't have the gun in his hand. But they don't have a shred of credibility because their previous story was that he didn't even have a gun until the cops proved he did indeed have one and it was at the scene.

    You can't train anyone to shoot in the leg. You aim for center mass because that's where you have the best chance of hitting the target and not a bystander.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Whether the family is telling the truth is irrelevant if he was not threatening the police with the gun.
     
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  6. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    At that range? NO, please.
     
  7. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Legs are more difficult to hit and a bullet wound to leg could easily be fatal. Really isn't much point once you've decided to shoot someone to aim anywhere but at the center of mass.
     
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  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Mate, come on now.

    One was a bunch of ragged terrorists having a tantrum. And since God appoints the British Monarch (Dieu et mon droit), the suggestion of dictatorship is incredibly incorrect.

    The other are peoples of colour in the US sick of periodic instances of police shooting unarmed civilians, of which the overwhelming majority of unarmed and shot people are black.

    You familiar with Zach Hammond?
     
  9. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Meh... the second part of that post was pretty much a throwaway The main point is that it makes no difference if he was armed (if he actually was), because the 2nd amendment, something he is very vocal about, gives him that right. He can't have it both ways.
     
  10. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Yes, thank you for the full quote. We are in agreement, I believe, and I do think now that I had guessed what MLK was getting at. I certainly was not attempting to say, "MLK would be ashamed of all these protests!" and I hope it didn't come off that way.

    Essentially, he's saying there that you can't only say, "riots are wrong" without asking, "but what has caused this community to be so angry that some of its members would riot and take their anger out on innocent parties?"

    He's also not saying the people who riot are right to do so. He's not saying violence is okay. He's just saying it's understandable, that it comes from a place of deep anger. It's a sign of the massive cultural oppression they feel. A canary in a coal mine, if you will. Normal people get to a breaking point eventually. We see that in instances where small factions of otherwise peaceful protestors turn to rioting. They can't take their anger out on the police, so they snap and take it out on buildings.

    At the same time, MLK organized so many protests that were actually effective because he knew that, in spite of this not being fair, turning the other cheek and using non-violence only is the best way to elicit sympathy for your cause from the people you need to reach. Otherwise, all people are going to see on the news is a few protestors taking anger out via a riot on innocent business owners, because that's how the news works unfortunately.

    (This is also why the NAACP carefully selected Rosa Parks to be the one to refuse to move to the back of the bus; they correctly judged that she would be seen as a sympathetic person and above reproach.)

    Finally, I just wanted to note that as a Christian (which is obviously also where MLK was coming from), the example of Jesus was decidedly NOT, "anger is wrong". In fact, this purveyor of "turn the other cheek" often expressed virulent anger at those in power who used it to oppress or take advantage of others. Because outrage is absolutely the correct moral response to oppression and abuse of power.

    I mean, the guy is known for tossing tables of money lenders over in a temple, for swearing at corrupt religious leaders (his "brood of vipers" insult was the Aramaic equivalent of "sons of bitches")... So yeah, all the white Christians who act like MLK would not have approved of any anger against oppressors not only don't understand MLK, they also don't seem to understand the founder of their and MLK's religion. Not only is anger okay, it can be righteous. Anger and violence aren't at all the same thing.

    But yes, rioting and harming innocent people is wrong. It has to be prosecuted. And it's certainly not usually helpful to the public perception of your cause, which is theoretically the whole purpose of a protest.

    It's just that... we're not talking about riots caused by mostly white people after sports losses or wins (why, people?). Those have caused millions of dollars in damage to innocent businesses and injuries sometimes to innocent bystanders, and all for completely pointless reasons. We're talking about groups of people who have never known a world where they were on equal footing as others with a different skin color, or who don't know what it's like to feel safe around those who are supposed to protect you.

    And that kind of anger is absolutely understandable, and shouldn't be ignored or swept under the rug. Because it has a very real cause.
     
  11. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Ender Sai I just want to make it clear that this sentence is my mindset when it comes to these protests.

    Regardless of how you may believe the media twists things (which they do, really), it is STILL extremely effective. Nothing is more evocative of one's message than seeing non-violent protest getting countered with aggression (whether it be by police or by another party). You would be better off doing non-violent protest because you would be protesting from the moral high ground and your opponent would be forced to argue your claims on your terms. When those claims prove true, you end up with the positive public opinion and accomplish your goals. It applied then and it applies now.
     
  12. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Sweet mother of...

    First off, you are the one who keeps bringing up Michael Brown. Second, are you not reading this thread? "Actual situations" of people other than Michael Brown are brought up literally once a week or more. Actual situations other than Michael Brown go all the way back to the original post of this thread.

    I mean, what even...
     
  13. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Don't get carried away. While more black mes are shot by police per capita, remember more white men are shot by the police than are black men in raw numbers. So saying that even a simple majority of unarmed black men shot by police is wrong, much less an overwhelming majority.
    I'm still hearing "Hands Up! Don't Shoot!"
    http://www.handsupunited.org/
    http://www.dailywire.com/news/7321/ny-protesters-chant-hands-dont-shoot-admit-they-pardes-seleh#
    https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Up-Dont-Shoot-African-American/dp/1500882852

    It's still all over the place.

    AND IT'S A LIE

    But no one cares. It fits the narrative.
     
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Per capita is important.

    And your insistence on bringing up Brown over and over again just demonstrates that you are not listening and you care more about pushing your own narrative than the experiences of anyone other than Brown or the topic of the thread.
     
  15. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
  16. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    So you are saying that my pushing the narrative that at least part of BLM is lies is bad but BLM pushing a false narrative is good?

    When really, all I'm doing is explaining why people wouldn't be too trusting in the narrative pushed by the media. Ignore it if you want. But at least you know why.
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    BLM is not pushing a "false narrative." The statistics on how many unarmed black people and/or black people who were not threatening the police have been well documented. That's why BLM was formed.

    And yes, we are going to trust the mainstream media before we trust Infowars or Breitbart because conspiracy theory sites are just that, and they are ridiculous.
     
  18. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    -Keeps bringing up Michael Brown.
    -Gripes at other people for constantly bringing up Michael Brown.
    -Gets reminded of all the other people who are not Michael Brown, but are germane to the discussion.
    -Continues to constantly bring up Michael Brown.
    -Wonders why he receives so much scorn.
     
  19. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Michael Brown, Michael brown. I'm gonna carve it on my gravestone I hear it so much!
     
  20. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    I don't wonder. I know that people here are over-sensitive/use mock outrage. It's how it happens.

    Like I said, Hands up is a lie. People still use it.
     
  21. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Nobody is "over-sensitive," they just don't buy your bull****.
     
  22. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    You're supposed to star out the whole word.
     
  23. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    No, I'm not. Don't mini-mod me.
     
  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That would be correct. Only the last part has to be starred out.
     
  25. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004