Racial Double Standards

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Suzuki_Akira, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    It's been brought up a ridiculous amount of times in YJCC that Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians get away with things whites couldn't - exclusive scholarships, colleges, months and weeks, organizations, et al. This is the place to discuss these things.

    To begin, I'll make a note of one thing. Seeking to end the often alluded to resegregation of our country by racial and ethnic interest groups is nieve and utopianistic at best. The fact is, America like much of the world has a history of racism that will not go away by blindfolding ourselves and pretending it's not there. Equality will not be reached by assuming everyone is already equal because 'my generation didn't do anything'. If anything these notions our counterproductive. This shortsighted side can be represented by wanting absolute, immediate equality, i.e. A=A. But realistically, each side will have to gain and lose a little to gain more of an equilibrium that this. Respectively, this can be represented by something to the order of "2x+3=3x+1".

    Discuss.
  2. ManoWan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2002
    star 4
    Why We Need Black History Month - All Year Around
    From "Ghana Review" Vol 1. No. 6
    Friday 27 January 1995
    Supplement
    Black History Month

    N.B. Posted with permission of GHANA REVIEW.

    Having lived in Canada for many years now, I have come to know the month of February as Black History Month. In fact, since 1926, February has been designated as Black History month in North America.

    During one of the Black History Month celebrations here in Edmonton, I engaged in a chat with a gentleman who had come to find out what it was all about. During our conversation he kept asking me why do Black people need a month to celebrate their history? He wanted to know what is Black history? And if there is any history of African people at all to talk or read about.

    I must say I was not surprised at his queries. I cannot remember the number of times I have heard or read somewhere that, as Africans we have not contributed anything substantial to history. In fact, to many Westerners we have no history at all. This statement by a Columbia University professor is very typical: "Over the past 5,000 years," he noted, "the history of black Africa is blank. The black African had no written language; no numerals; no calendar, or system of measurement. He did not devise a plough or wheel, nor did he domesticate an animal; he built nothing more complex than a mud hut or thatched stockade. The African had no external trade except in slaves of his own race, in ivory, and (on the West Coast) in palm oil and mahogany."

    And of course, there is the much quoted pronouncement by the eminent Oxford University historian, Professor Hugh Trevor-Roper who said that: "Perhaps in the future there will be some African history to teach. But at the present there is none; there is only the history of Europeans in Africa. The rest is darkness ... and darkness is not the subject of history".

    Or what about the view expressed by the British scholar of Africa, Margery Perham, who wrote that: "Until the very recent penetration of Europe the greater part of the [African] continent was without the wheel, the plough or the transport animal; without stone houses or clothes except skins; without writing and so without history."

    In his book, Progress and Evolution of Man in Africa, Dr. L. S. B. Leakey wrote that: "In every country that one visits and where one is drawn into a conversation about Africa, the question is regularly asked by people who should know better: "But what has Africa contributed to world progress?"

    What I have found troubling though is how many of us in the Black or African communities still believe some of these statements. I have encountered Blacks who are completely ignorant or have less knowledge about African history - despite the many fine books on African history and the rise of the Afrocentric movement in North America.

    African-American historian John Hope Franklin was right when he told an interviewer that: "[Blacks] can never expect the public schools to teach us as much about our history as we want to know. We can urge them, we can press them to teach more, but I think that much of this lies with us."

    As someone interested in Black education, I find it a tragedy that many Black and African children grow up today convinced of their own inferiority. The educational process largely ignores the contributions of Blacks to world civilization and is full of negative perceptions of Blacks and their culture. The school system in North America has continually perpetuated the historical myths and stereotypes about the African past.

    I was almost moved to tears to read in a recent Canadian newspaper report about a Black student who until enrolling in a Black-oriented remedial school never knew or read a book by a Black author. There have been reports about how studies in Black history have been an "eye-opener for [Black] students" in Canadian high schools.

    One account noted that students are not taught any African or Black history in regular classes. As one student put it: "They have always taken Canadian histo
  3. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I personally think this is a good idea for a debate.

    The personal example that I'd like to mention was the "All Asian" soccer team that they had at my University. ...............I severly doubt a "White's only" soccer team would have been permitted.

    That's the exact double standard that I think exists. If you want equality then stop constantly looking for separation.
  4. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    But if you want equality, you must somehow compensate for the entrenched differences resulting from long periods of inequality in the past.

  5. Darth-Kevin-Thomas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 5
    ^^^^
    agreed

    MY work, as i have noticed, will not hire white people. The only reason i got the job is becuase my mom knew my boss.

    They do a lot of black history which i don't personaly have a problom with. I did find it fairly amusing that when i suggested to put up shamrocks for St. Pattys day right after a "black history/culture meeting". They said no, it was silly. "We all know what that is, there is no need to spend time in usless endevors" My memo said.

    hahaha

    whatever
    dkt
  6. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    compensate for the entrenched differences

    So you are basically suggesting that more inequality will eventually lead to equality ?

  7. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    No, I'm saying we have to realize that the effects of inequality over long periods of time linger in such areas as family stability, connections, wealth (and consequently ghettos), etc and that you can't have equality without addressing those after-effects.
  8. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Malkie, that's exactly what should be said, I know it's what I'm saying. If someone's income is 500 dollars and another is 1000, and you attempt to make them equal, how in the world do you do that without giving the person with 500 more than the person with 1000 the next payday? Is it even possible, much less feasible?
  9. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Having equality on any level doesn't work.

    Black Worker gets 500
    White Worker gets 1000

    Company decides that all employees should be equal.

    Black Worker gets 1250 (to compensate)
    White Worker gets 1000

    Now, a new White Worker starts with the company - how much does he get paid ? If he gets 1000 he's getting underpaid, through no fault of his own. Why should the Black Worker be getting paid more for doing the same job?

    Giving these sorts of unequal breaks just perpetuates inequality. Creating inequality to solve inequality is entirely flawed.

    Create a level playing field, and everyone is happy.

  10. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    So you are saying that Affirmative Action on the whole makes blacks actually ahead of whites in terms of benefits? I can't believe my ears(well, eyes).
  11. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Where did I say that ?

  12. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    I assumed that that was what you were inferring from your analogy.
  13. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    But the goal of society, at least in the US, is not to make everyone equal.

    If that was the case, why does Donald Trump have 3 billion dollars, and I only have a tiny fraction of that? I want my additional 1.5 billion dollars.

    Is income even a valid indicator of inequality?

    I would argue that Will Smith, who just happens to be black, and myself are inequal in terms of wealth.

    In fact, in my chosen profession, I will never earn the amount of money that he does. Is Will Smith a representative of discrimination? Or does this observation certainly doesn't illustrate anything more than it does.

    Under your idea, that more and more inequality will somehow balance everything out, where is the finish line, and what criteria is even used?
  14. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    Great, now we have to start the debate over. :(
  15. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Mr44, instead of just poo-pooing (I always wanted to use that term) others ideas, what do you think should be done about the entrenched after-effects of centuries of inequality in the United States?

  16. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I assumed that that was what you were inferring from your analogy.

    I was elaborating on your analogy when you said "how in the world do you do that without giving the person with 500 more than the person with 1000 the next payday?"

    I just don't see how more inequality solves inequality. All it would do is generate resentment and hatred.

    I also agree with what Mr44 had to say.


    jediflyer - as far as I can see, everyone is equal. However, if you want to debate specific then give me an example
  17. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Will Smith probably doesn't have as much money as other superstars. We can all find exceptions on both ends in great quantity, but why don't we do something more constructive and look at the alternative. What should we do, in your(my opponents') opinions, to rectify racism?
  18. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    as far as I can see, everyone is equal. However, if you want to debate specific then give me an example

    So the problems in the Black community are entirely their own fault?
  19. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    What should we do, in your(my opponents') opinions, to rectify racism?

    I don't honestly believe that functional racism still exists. However, I'm happy to debate any specific examples.
  20. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    "Functional racism"? Are you trying to insinuate that the abolishment of Jim Crow and most obvious systematic racism means that racism has been mostly extinguished? What's on paper is near irrelevant if the result is the same. In fact, its prime relevance is into deluding people like yourself into believing that widespread racism is a thing of the past.
  21. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I'm not saying that racism no longer exists, as there are clearly racist people in the world.

    What I'd like you to do is provide an example of how inequality exists on an accountable level.

    I don't want your opinion, or something you can't back up with data or fact. I'd like to see something you can provide that illustrates that any race is discriminated against in the USA. (other than whites)
  22. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Racism made a huge comeback after 9/11. It was never gone before but people got more racist after 9/11.


    You don't know how many white people I heard start using terms like "Towel Heads" and "Camel Jockeys".
  23. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Will Smith probably doesn't have as much money as other superstars.

    It's telling that you use the qualifier "probably" with that statement. Will Smith is an A list actor. I'd bet he has more money than Steve Guttenberg, and Ted McGinley, who happen to be white.

    But because Will Smith makes less than Brad Pitt, it has to be because of his skin color?

    And as you indicate below, what does that automatically indicate?

    Will Smith also has more money than a majority of the population, and he also has more money than even a great deal of Hollywood stars.

    In what sense, and with what criteria is Will Smith being discriminated by?

    We can all find exceptions on both ends in great quantity, but why don't we do something more constructive and look at the alternative.

    Exactly.

    What should we do, in your(my opponents') opinions, to rectify racism?

    Well, first of all, you'll have to define what you mean by "rectify."

    I'd say a system like the military's will eliminate racism faster, and more effectively than a arbitrary system of undefined entitlements.

  24. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Okay, Malkie, here's one that I know you're familiar with. Blacks with equal credentials have less than half the chance of a White with equal credentials and a drug conviction of getting the same job.

    EDIT: My point, MR44, was not that Will doesn't have as much money because of discrimination, but that he's not the richest star in Hollywood. Which is to say, for whatever reason, the richest star is probably white. But I could be wrong.
  25. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    If you can't contribute to the discussion, then don't post at all.
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